No, they are fine with Linux . It's more about not letting them down. Family comes first
On Wed, Dec 20, 2023, 6:45 AM Gregory Casamento <greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: > Bruce, > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM bruce <darkoverlordofd...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I'd always assumed that gnustep used its own gui across systems. But if >> you're using native controls on windows, my 'nda anxiety' is low. Nothing I >> say about linux gui affects windows. >> > > Assumption is the true enemy of understanding. :) Don't ask me where I got > that quote from, I don't remember. You can either use GNUstep's own GUI > or WinUXTheme (which uses native widgets) on Windows. The theme uses > WinUXTheme.dll on Windows to interface with the native theming framework. > > You may think I'm overly paranoid about it. I don't work there anymore, >> and I don't use windows anymore, but friends and family still work there, >> so microsoft *is* family. I have to look them in the eye here in a few days. >> > > And they would have a problem with you exploring other things within your > chosen profession? Windows does not comprise the entire computing > ecosystem. It may be so on the common user's desktop, but not in the > industry as a whole. Linux rules the server space in spite of what > Microsoft might want you to believe. > > Speaking of which, tomorrow is Yule. After the new year I'll make a clean >> repro and file a bug in github. >> > > Sweet, I am looking forward to that. Also... just so you know, myself and > Riccardo tried using XFCE with GNUstep and found a couple of interesting > issues, but were not able to reproduce the artifacts you saw. Sometime > between now and the end of the year I am going to give helloSystem a shot > and see if I can make any sense of what you saw on there and if so, maybe > we can address some of the issues you're experiencing. > > Yours, GC > > > >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 5:40 PM Gregory Casamento < >> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Bruce, >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce <darkoverlordofd...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures >>>> of gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and >>>> native. >>>> >>>> My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks >>>> brutalistic. Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from >>>> most people that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their >>>> desktop back”. I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on >>>> mac/windows, and the way it looks on linux/freebsd. >>>> >>> >>> This is, unfortunately, true. GNUstep is using native widgets on >>> Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform. I, >>> personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation >>> to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion. >>> >>> Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - >>>> ask any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for >>>> other users, it is often a non-starter. >>>> >>>> My experience has been: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Wow this is cool >>>> - >>>> >>>> Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches >>>> >>>> >>> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Wow this looks old >>>> - >>>> >>>> Wow this is hard to use >>>> >>>> >>> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Install something else >>>> >>>> >>>> But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is >>>> awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, >>>> the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That >>>> complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But >>>> computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s >>>> not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. >>>> So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability. >>>> >>> >>> GNUstep is platform agnostic from the sense that it is flexible enough >>> to be made to blend in should the developer wish to make that happen. The >>> community can't take all of the responsibility for making YOUR app fit in >>> everywhere. Also, it is difficult when we are only a few people working on >>> a large project such as this. The point is... help us, I know you have >>> told me privately why you feel as though you can't contribute directly, but >>> writing bug reports or even feature requests on github is something you CAN >>> do. >>> >>> You can help us get there by simply reporting any issues you're seeing >>> in the places I have asked you to do so. >>> >>> GC >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 3:00 PM Riccardo Mottola < >>>> riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> bruce wrote: >>>>> > I've tried using libobjc2 with the other runtimes from the linux >>>>> repo. I >>>>> > couldn't get it to work, but it sounds like other people have under >>>>> > certain circumstances. >>>>> >>>>> Building libobjc2 can be from easy, "just works" to a nightmare, >>>>> depending on a platform. >>>>> >>>>> Best, of course, is if it comes ready for your OS. >>>>> >>>>> > Hm, I'll give that a try,. >>>>> > But to build a product, I want to know that my users can install it >>>>> > without all the monkey business. Otherwise it becomes a support >>>>> nightmare. >>>>> >>>>> GCC almost always "just works" if the operating system provides it. If >>>>> you don't need Obj-C2 features for your app, it is usually a very easy >>>>> path and that's why I love it. Except FreeBSD, where you mention >>>>> working. THhere the situation is complicated, because GCC provided has >>>>> its obj-c runtime removed, supposing you to use libobjc2, which won't >>>>> work. SO I abandoned that path, but compiled libobjc2 from sources. >>>>> >>>>> Riccardo >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Bruce Davidson >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory Casamento >>> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant >>> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >>> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron >>> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >>> >>> [image: Mailtrack] >>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> >>> Sender >>> notified by >>> Mailtrack >>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> >>> 12/19/23, >>> 12:35:33 PM >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Bruce Davidson >> >> > > -- > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >
