On 22/07/2024 4:08 pm, Gregory Casamento wrote:
Liam,
Really not in the mood this morning, but here goes...
Fair. I really should not have posted when I was in a negative mood myself.
As evidence for #3 below, you should be aware that GNUstep currently has
a wayland capable backend. It is still in development, but it is there.
Good. Great.
No one in this project is in denial. It only seems so because you
1) Have contributed ABSOLUTELY NO code.
I am not a programmer.
2) Post only when you have something negative to say
No, I generally come seeking info.
3) Don't seem to keep abreast of the changes on the project as evidenced
by the lack of information in some of your posts.
Could be. If it isn't on this list, I probably don't know about it.
AFAICS there's no "news" or "updates" section on gnustep.org. There is
no official blog, AFAIK.
You have a Twitter feed, but you mostly post US politics stuff. As it
happens I agree with your sentiments on that, but I am not American and
it's not my argument. Not my circus, not my monkey, as they say in
Polish. You might alienate people with the political stuff. I suggest
that you don't and split your presence there into a personal account and
a GNUstep account.
I saw 2 blog posts in the last month; both seem to have been deleted and
just say
«
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.
»
This is already having
negative repercussions for the project.
Can you be specific?
Yes, in the next line, which you quote.
For example the 2 most visible projects to offer replacements for
Apple macOS do not use GNUstep:
https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ <https://hellosystem.github.io/
docs/>
Probono realized after doing his live cd that taking GNUstep the rest of
the way involved ACTUAL work that he was unwilling to do.
Er, look, you may be right and you may be wrong, but that is not a
productive way to build community.
> Yes, I am > calling you out Probono if you happen to read this list.
https://ravynos.com/ <https://ravynos.com/>
While I respect her effort to re-create macOS that is not
GNUstep's goal.
That is open to more debate than you realise, and that is one of the
core problems of the project.
> The goal of this project is to create a cross-platform > API, not a
desktop.
Again: that is 100% exactly what I mean about not realizing what the
project is doing and has done.
It is traditional to explain computer metaphors using cars.
So:
Project Fastcar makes a sports car which is very aerodynamic due to a
new fairing material.
Joe Public comes along and says: "hey, cool car."
"No! We do not make cars. We are exploring the physics of car design."
"But you made a car. It looks great. Can I buy one?"
"We don't make cars. We explore car design."
"But I want a car. Can I buy one?"
"Oh, that? It's free. Just take it. But we don't make cars."
"But there is a car right here. You're saying I can have this car?"
"We do not make cars. We are a design group. There is no single one car.
But the cars will be free."
"But can I have this car right here?"
"Well, this is just a design."
"Can I have one like it?"
"You can build one, but we don't make cars."
The guy just wants a car. You have a free car.
He is not interested in building his own car. He just likes this demo
model you have.
You will get more people interested in the design if you let them take
the car and drive it. Billions of people drive cars. Only a few hundred
design cars. Most people are interested in just _driving_ cars and they
don't want to design their own cars.
Maybe by accident you made a car. The car exists. Let people have the
car. People understand cars much better than they understand the design
principles that underlie cars.
Stop angrily telling people interested in the car that there isn't a car
and making cars is not what you do.
Give the cars away. Admit that you have a car and the car can be driven
and embrace that you made a car and the car works.
If people can get the car and drive it then that will let many more
people see your design.
Secondly, you don't *just* design a car. You also make tyres that other
cars could use. (That, for clarity, is the .app format.)
Please just let people have the tyres and put their own car on the
tyres, and have the cars.
By adamantly insisting for 25 years that you don't make cars, another 20
or 30 projects have come along giving away cars that are much worse than
your demo car. They barely go, they look like junk, but you can actually
get them and drive them.
Some are now on their 4th or 6th generation and they're still junk
compared to the beautiful car you made in 1996 or so... but you are
here, red in the face, spraying spittle at me as you insist that you
don't make cars.
Additionally ravynos is based on the
now defunct cocotron project whose code has not been updated in 8+
years.
Doesn't matter. They're getting way more attention than you. People are
trying it.
Seems... I dunno... rather *UNIMPLEMENTED* LOL... it does not inspire my
confidence in rayvnOS as a whole.
I tried it. It won't even boot in a VM. It's not even a prototype yet.
And yet, in the last month or two...
https://blog.desdelinux.net/en/ravynos-a-freebsd-with-macos-flavor/
https://debugpointnews.com/ravynos-5-freebsd/
https://x.com/ElBlogDeLazaro/status/1795495500520583308
https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2024/05/29/ravynOS_A_macOS_Inspired_FreeBSD_Based_Desktop.shtml
You need eyes. All software needs users. No community = no free software.
This is utter BS and you know it, Liam.
https://www.apple.com/us/search/cocoa?src=globalnav
Note: the programming API is not there.
Support site:
https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=search&type=organic&src=support_searchbox_psp&locale=en_US&q=cocoa
10.5 and 10.7. Nothing newer than 2011.
It's not helpful to use a name the owner of that name stopped using
nearly a decade and a half ago.
I have no side in this, no stake, no skin in the game. I don't care. I
am just trying to point out that the name is dead.
This is a link to the language repo, not proof ObjC is being replaced.
https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/uq2o5k/does_anyone_still_use_objectivec_in_their_ios_app/
Note:
https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/uq2o5k/comment/i8p0be6/
«
It's helpful for an iOS developer to know ObjC and at least be able to
read it, but if you start a fresh iOS code base today, there's pretty
much no reason to drop down to ObjC for sections of your code unless
there's some specific interoperability stuff you need to do.
»
It's over. It's dying.
Again: no stake, but it's over.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
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