Michel,

Fyi, your post is extremely difficult to read due to poor formatting (no
line-wrapping and more importantly no paragraph breaks).

Charles

On 2010-10-15 10:03 AM, Michel Gagnon wrote:
> Le 2010-10-14 18:03, Mirek M. acrit:Hi everyone, Since it seems like
> LibreOffice won't adopt the UI Oracle's preparing for OOo, I'm starting
> a massive LibreOffice UI proposal series. Here's the
> intro:http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/citrus-ui/Hello,I
> wonder what is the interest of Microsoft and others, including you, to
> replace menus with a ribbon-like interface. I think it brings the worst
> in terms of usability. Why?We have grown to use a certain menu
> organization. File, Edit, Format, Tools, Windows and Help are, in that
> order, fairly standard menu items in all applications, and even the
> basic list of menu items is even fairly standardized. The ribbon
> interface changes that to a certain extent and requires a relearning
> process.There are a few menu items that are easily displayed with icons,
> but most icons are either very hard to read or require a lot of real
> estate or both. Look at Microsoft Word or at WordPad on System 7 and
> look at icons used for page or paragraph margins, or for search and
> replace (very similar to the one for spelling). Because of that, Ms
> Office 2010 and WordPad adds text below many icons (more real estate)
> and a tool tip which is basically the former menu item.Because of real
> estate requirements, there are a limited number of buttons that may be
> displayed on a screen, whether it is with a traditional set of buttonsla
> Office 3.2 or with a ribbonla Microsoft Office 2007-2010. So there is a
> need for multiple menus that call different ribbons like Ms Office. or
> buttons that need still another action like custom margins.Using a
> typical menu item requires one move with the mouse: move it to the top
> to select the menu and slide it toward the menu item, then release. Sub
> menus require a little more dexterity.On the other hand, using a typical
> ribbon "menu" item requires a move and two clicks: a first click at the
> top to select the proper ribbon, then a click on the proper icon. And
> because of the limited real estate, it is more likely that one then
> falls onto yet another dialogue box.A traditional tool bar is always
> there; so its commands may be accessed very quickly. But it works only
> because of its limited number of icons.So what would be the best
> approach? Probably a mix of both systems.A traditional menu system for
> structured commands. In a word processor, I see comprehensive commands
> like Page setup, Paragraph setup, Font setup, Style setup (with a dialog
> box like that of Office 2003), Table setup, etc. Simple commands like
> "Align to the left" could either be in a submenu or even forgotten
> altogether because they already are accessible through the Paragraph
> Setup dialog box. Displaying them in a submenu makes learning and
> training easier : the command is seen, its shortcut is seen, etc.If a
> ribbon-like approach is used, there should be shortcuts not only for
> items, but also for each of the ribbons. For instance, I should be able
> to press alt-F for the File ribbon, alt-E to show the Edit ribbon,
> etc... and each of these shortcuts should become as standard as
> control-Z, X, C and V for the basic cut and paste possibilities.Of
> course, control-C for Cut and control-shift-L (or control-L) for
> Align-left should also exist for a direct access to menus.Icons are good
> when the graphic is obvious to all and when clicking on it has a direct
> result. One of the major pitfalls I currently see is that most are
> non-configurable (same problem with Microsoft Office and OpenOffice). So
> for me, the Left-Align and Bold icons work (but the keyboard shortcuts
> are so quicker), but the bullet icon doesn't work because it does not
> use my preferred settings: I would like it to apply my "Bullet 1"
> setting (usually a hanging indent of 1 pica with no further indent, but
> some documents have a different style definition). Ditto for the 5 or 6
> different Page Setting icons that are defined in Ms Word 2007: none of
> them have the margins I need for my documents!How would a mixed system
> work?One way to do it would be to have the menus first, followed by
> ribbons. For instance, the new LibreOffice would have File-Edit-Display
> (maybe)-Insert-Format-Table-Tools-Window menus, then Basic (file and
> edit ribbon items)-Insert-Format (document, paragraph and text
> items)-Table ribbons. The menu could appear either on a single line or
> on two lines if/when the window is too narrow.Finally, should a ribbon
> sit on the right or at the top? Why not have it either way? The ribbon
> is a glorified toolbar and traditional toolbars have worked in either
> position, either docked or undocked. So why not have the "ribbon menus"
> call a toolbar anyway?By the way, since we talk of a new interface, one
> aspect I don't like of OpenOffice 3.x are the toolbars that appear and
> disappear according to paragraph styles. For instance, when bullets are
> chosen (or a bullet style), the bullet toolbar appears (by default at
> the top) and shifts all text down 1 cm. Go back to a standard paragraph
> and it shifts up again. Why not have a user interface made with one or
> two user-defined toolbars like we currently have on OpenOffice 3.x and
> Ms Office 2003, plus one toolbar that would be always there, albeit with
> variable content (a.k.a. the "ribbon"). Users would decide where they
> want that big grey box and LibreOffice would fill in the proper
> icons.--Michel [email protected] (Qubec,
> Canada)mgagnon.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to
> [email protected] All messages you send to this list
> will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are
> available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/


-- 

Best regards,

Charles Marcus
I.T. Director
Media Brokers International, Inc.
678.514.6200 x224 | 678.514.6299 fax

-- 
E-mail to [email protected] for instructions on how to 
unsubscribe
List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
deleted

Reply via email to