> eers.org> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > What is stopping an artist purchasing a copy of the recording that was > made > > of their performance, manufacturing copies of it and then selling those > > copies? > > > > Don't forget, the recording is by no means equivalent to the live > > performance. > > > > An artist also has equal (if not more) opportunity than anyone else to > > record their own performances. > > > > It is not technology that is necessarily culpable for any displacement, > but > > unequal access to it. That may well have long been a case of the haves vs > > the have nots, but there are a hell of a lot of haves these days when it > > comes to recording, distribution and publishing. > > > > The key remaining inequality is the mercantile privilege of copyright - > > designed for the haves (in terms of lobbying power and legal resources). > > > > There is only one force in this world mighty enough to take on the > recording > > industry (whilst they still have power), and that is the people. > > > > If you transfer your copyright to the people, they will protect it and > > fiercly counter any corporation who dares appropriate it. > > > > That means artists should stop putting barbed wire around their art to > > preserve the ability for record labels to monopolise it in the future - > > labels pay a pittance for the privilege anyway (for those artists who > don't > > end up in debt to them). > > > > And until an artist is as rich as Cliff, they have no power to exploit > their > > notional monopoly without a label. > > > > So, let's help persuade artists to stop kidding themselves that they can > be > > their own labels and make monopoly money. > > > > An artist should sell their art to their audience with no monopoly > retained. > > CC-NC is a Naive Con. > > > > One can suggest using a copyleft licence such as CC-SA if there's doubt > > concerning the ability of the people to otherwise protect their > intellectual > > property. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Eliot P. [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Sunday, 28 October 2007 5:13am > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [FC-discuss] Transcended Value in Recording Industry > > > > > > A major issue in intellectual property is common depreciation. What is > > that? Well on one hand, the profit of a real estate investment, is not > > taxed as highly because the value of the property is depreciated. It > > doesn't matter whether the property is old or new.. That makes this a > maor > > income generating opportunity for real estate owners. They can withdraw > > money since their tax is minimal. But being a rock star is not like being > a > > real estater. Believe me, I know all about rock music. > > > > OK so when I go to do rock star work, my work has some value, but there > are > > also costs. Now what if I say that I can rock twice for the same cost.. > No > > that is not true. I can not double rock and roll. > > > > But if I have cash to invest, in rock stars, then what I can do is invest > > for a higher interest. I ell that rock star he has to rock for my money, > or > > I will put a lien on that guitar and drums till he pays off. He tells me > > some sad story, I can' rock but once, eh. > > > > So I get the tape recorder, and come over to the concert. I record the > > concert and now I can double the investment and make twice as much. I > keep > > all of that money. He says I want some of that money. But it was the > tape > > recorder that I used. He can't rock it more than once. And so most > > technology displaces people . That is a transcendence of their value > within > > an open system where they are not getting feedback and control. In a > closed > > system they would have gotten feedback and would not rock wher there was a > > tape recorder. Since that technology is going to cost them money. that > is > > what happens with technology and investment. It tends to transcend the > > stabiliy and speeds thing up. hat happens to everybody. Investment > > requires interest must be paid, while the worker is offered a conditional > > employment depending upon his usefulness. But I can still rock and roll.. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20071028/f1c9de55/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 13:20:22 -0400 > > From: "Fred Benenson" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] Transcended Value in Recording Industry > > To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in > > particular" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > I'm not sure how depreciation would fare in "intellectual property" > because > > it's really just a device to leverage tax incentives and extract value > from > > real estate that depends on the reality that physical objects break and > > degrade in quality. > > > > If what you're suggesting is that more artists take advantage of this > > maneuver in the realm of music and art, then I think you're committing > the > > fairly common fallacy of equating physical property with creative works. > > The reason why depreciation won't work for creative works is because they > > don't actually depreciate in physical value -- a song's copyright is no > less > > "useful" in its state 20 years after it's useful than it is at the time of > > its creation. I suppose there's an argument for notion that copyrights > > dilute over time as a matter of fashion and taste (while most ragtime is > > copyrighted, much fewer of those works are as valuable as they were at the > > time of their creation due to the popular taste of music consumers -- > > apologies to any ragtime fans on this list) this seems a odd and difficult > > factor for the law to account for. > > > > IANAL, > > > > > > F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/28/07, Eliot P. <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > A major issue in intellectual property is common depreciation. What is > > > that? Well on one hand, the profit of a real estate investment, is not > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:02:40 -0600 > From: "Eliot P." <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] Discuss Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57 [2/2] > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <001f01c819b6$a523fac0$057ba8c0@CONQUISTADOR> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:02:40 -0600 > From: "Eliot P." <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] Discuss Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57 [1/2] > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <001e01c819b6$a4623160$057ba8c0@CONQUISTADOR> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > As for who uses the recorder and how much it matters, as for the way it > makes a difference in how much the concert music or the musician is valued, > that is a difference in the feedback. You'll get an idea of the adjustment > in your technology, and what that will change. A system is meant to manage > the change in the environment. In a way, it would seem to be simalar to a > restaurant. If the restauranteur buys alot of hamburgers and the customers > are students buying those hamburgers when they come out of school, he does > alright when he sells hamburgers on school days. In the summer he will > probably not buy hamburgers, according to his feedback. > > So many people think that they are in the system, on a level of personal > protection of their mighty lifestyles. They really can't prove that they > deserve anything on that level. Those who are very successful are obvious, > i.e, the computer giants at Microsoft, and Apple, Cisco, Oracle et al. Some > of thse legal outfits are just ambulance chasers. Sure they parade around > like Snoop Dogg and they make some girls perspire because they sound > articulate.. I think the only way to get to the other side of this tunnel, > would be to limit the amount of money according to a type of project. There > would be more of a chance for people who want to work to get compensated in > their workplace, instead of them investing with international financial > cartels which are hard to make accountable. Why do I wnat a company cutting > corners when it comes to the local economy, and taking a flyer on some > exotic market where they are trying war with other investor cartels for > total domination. And that's where they stand with Madonna. She adopts > kids from countries where her investments amount to a political economy. > > Leave the kids there, and give the money back to the concert goers, and > record buyers. you're a chick singer, not a political economist..!! ill be > your daddy madonna. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:20 AM > Subject: Discuss Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57 > > > > Send Discuss mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Discuss digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Educating upcoming artists on pro-sharing licenses > > (Elizabeth Stark) > > 2. Transcended Value in Recording Industry (Eliot P.) > > 3. Re: Transcended Value in Recording Industry (Crosbie Fitch) > > 4. Re: Transcended Value in Recording Industry (Fred Benenson) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:18:21 -0400 > > From: "Elizabeth Stark" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] Educating upcoming artists on pro-sharing > > licenses > > To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in > > particular" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > I don't know of any templates or resources directly on this topic, but > this > > is a good idea. There are certainly more general resources out there (see > > info and videos on creativecommons.org for example.) Care to volunteer to > > make something more specific? :D > > > > On 10/27/07, Denver Gingerich <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > It is evident that recording and publishing companies search for > > > talent on YouTube and similar video sharing services so that they can > > > sign contracts with these people [1]. My impression is that these > > > contracts are often quite exclusive and don't allow the artists to put > > > pro-sharing licenses on their content because the recording or > > > publishing company decides on the licenses (and they generally don't > > > choose pro-sharing licenses). (Comments on the validity of these > > > statements would be appreciated.) > > > > > > I think it would be good for free culture advocates to also search for > > > talent on content sharing sites like YouTube so that we can educate > > > upcoming artists on pro-sharing licenses. It seems that the only > > > education they're getting right now is from the recording and > > > publishing companies that stick a huge legal document in front of them > > > and say "sign here". Do you know if there are any free culture > > > advocates actively trying to contact artists in this way? Are there > > > resources available (ie. e-mail templates) that one can use for > > > discussing pro-sharing licenses with artists that have little > > > knowledge of free culture? > > > > > > Denver > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Internet_celebrities_and_breaking_boundaries > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20071028/465f0185/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:13:00 -0500 > > From: "Eliot P." <[email protected]> > > Subject: [FC-discuss] Transcended Value in Recording Industry > > To: <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <001001c81921$358e6a00$057ba8c0@CONQUISTADOR> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > A major issue in intellectual property is common depreciation. What is > that? Well on one hand, the profit of a real estate investment, is not > taxed as highly because the value of the property is depreciated. It > doesn't matter whether the property is old or new.. That makes this a maor > income generating opportunity for real estate owners. They can withdraw > money since their tax is minimal. But being a rock star is not like being a > real estater. Believe me, I know all about rock music. > > > > OK so when I go to do rock star work, my work has some value, but there > are also costs. Now what if I say that I can rock twice for the same cost.. > No that is not true. I can not double rock and roll. > > > > But if I have cash to invest, in rock stars, then what I can do is invest > for a higher interest. I ell that rock star he has to rock for my money, or > I will put a lien on that guitar and drums till he pays off. He tells me > some sad story, I can' rock but once, eh. > > > > So I get the tape recorder, and come over to the concert. I record the > concert and now I can double the investment and make twice as much. I keep > all of that money. He says I want some of that money. But it was the tape > recorder that I used. He can't rock it more than once. And so most > technology displaces people . That is a transcendence of their value within > an open system where they are not getting feedback and control. In a closed > system they would have gotten feedback and would not rock wher there was a > tape recorder. Since that technology is going to cost them money. that is > what happens with technology and investment. It tends to transcend the > stabiliy and speeds thing up. hat happens to everybody. Investment > requires interest must be paid, while the worker is offered a conditional > employment depending upon his usefulness. But I can still rock and roll.. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20071028/8565242f/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:05:37 -0000 > > From: "Crosbie Fitch" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] Transcended Value in Recording Industry > > To: 'Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization > > inparticular' <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > > <4B34C0087F3E0545B87DBA6180CB6F7007E54E@sir-hewlett.internal.cyberspaceengin
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