Bummer you can't make it. I think your message is a valuable contribution,
and I'm up for doing either: nailing definitions (getting folks on the same
page and possibly identifying any non-obvious loose ends), or focusing on
communicating.

Also: language is dynamic, ever-changing, so have we (or others) forged new
areas (constructions without names / classifications) or dreamt new dreams
that have yet to be added to the cannon?

I'm just a nerd, this stuff is exciting to me, it's very new and
theoretical! On the other hand, I agree with you about "comm/PR"
work--there's lots to be done still since the email you just sent would
make no sense to most people! I see opportunity for a session, but seeking
other folks who want to put their heads into it.

Thanks again for the note!

;)

// Matt

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Karl Fogel
<[email protected]>wrote:

> Matthew Senate <[email protected]> writes:
> >Will you two be at the Free Culture summit? I pitched a meeting topic
> >called "read/write Definitions" on the theoretical underpinnings and
> >definitions of the FC movement (which is indebted to the Free Software
> >movement). I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I'd be excited to
> >facilitate a meeting with folks of various levels of familiarity and
> >experience. Check it out here and thumb-up if you think it's a good
> >idea: http://backchan.nl/meetings/view/1545
> >
> >Note, from a practical point of view, the goal of this meeting could
> >be to normalize interpretations of language and map the delicate, yet
> >critical nuances at play in the FC space, which is (IMHO) the hugest
> >barrier to entry for new folks and also critical for
> >communication-based goals within the movement.
>
> Unfortunately, no, I can't make it this time, though I wish I could.
>
> At the risk of perhaps oversimplifying...
>
> While there are certainly some communications / PR issues to be figured
> out, I feel the theoretical underpinnings are pretty solid these days.
> http://freedomdefined.org/ pretty much lays it out, as do other sites.
> Basically:
>
> The free culture licenses are CC-BY, CC-BY-SA, CC0, Public Domain (PD
> isn't a license, but you know what I mean), all the free software / open
> source licenses, and the GNU FDL as long as certain optional clauses
> aren't invoked.  Anything -ND or -NC is not a free culture license.
>
> (There may be some other free culture licenses out there, of course; I'm
> just listing the most popular / widely-known ones.)
>
> Furthermore, the above list is not arbitrary, but is based on the same
> freedoms as free and open source software, which extend pretty naturally
> to non-software works.  Simply put, if you are free to examine, make
> copies, share copies, make modifications, share modified copies, and
> use/perform/display/record/etc for any purpose, then you are dealing
> with Free Culture.  If you are missing any of those freedoms, then you
> are not dealing with Free Culture.
>
> Of course, a free culture license *may* impose certain non-onerous
> attribution requirements, and/or place limitations on your ability to
> restrict others' freedom to redistribute, but none of that interferes
> with the key freedoms listed above.
>
> Is there more to it than that?  Are we missing any theoretical
> underpinnings at this point?  I feel like the job now is explanation,
> not research.  Or perhaps that's what you were proposing too -- I
> couldn't be sure from your paragraph.  I guess I decided to make my
> contribution to the meeting now, since I can't be there in person :-).
>
> Have a great time!
>
> -Karl
>
> >On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Karl Fogel
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >    Danny Piccirillo <[email protected]> writes:
> >    >There is a debate within the free culture and free software
> >    >communities (presented within the scope of software, where it is
> >    most
> >    >relevant):
> >    >
> >    >Permissive vs Copyleft
> >    >
> >    >Permissive licensing is mostly hands off, and allows for
> >    proprietary
> >    >software to be made from free software. The argument here is that
> >    free
> >    >software should be made by choice, or at least that the law
> >    shouldn't
> >    >be relied upon to keep software free.
> >
> >
> >    I realize most of your email was humorous or meant as provocation
> >    :-),
> >    but I wanted to address seriously something in what you say above:
> >
> >    We hear this "choice" argument all the time: that free culture and
> >    free
> >    software are all very well and good, but shouldn't it be the
> >    producer's
> >    "choice" whether or not to release their work under a free
> >    license?
> >
> >    When people ask the question that way, they forget that everyone
> >    has the
> >    potential for choice.  We need to explain that a creator
> >    exercising such
> >    a "choice" is thus taking choices away from others.  That is, if I
> >    choose to (say) publish a book under a non-free license, I am
> >    thereby
> >    *taking away* everyone else's choices to share it, translate it,
> >    make
> >    derivative works from it, etc.  (And it's worse than a zero-sum
> >    game,
> >    since so many more people's choices are being limited in that
> >    scenario.)
> >
> >    Of course, taking away those choices is currently the default
> >    under law.
> >    The state not only grants, but actively encourages, that
> >    particular
> >    monopoly -- so much so that many people don't even think of this
> >    as
> >    reducing others' choices, even though that is its main effect.
> >
> >    So when you encounter the "choice" argument, please point out to
> >    your
> >    interlocutor that choice goes both ways.
> >
> >    -Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >    >Copyleft protects free software by preventing it from being
> >    >appropriated to restrict users' freedom. One of the greatest
> >    opponents
> >    >to free software is Apple, and they probably wouldn't be around
> >    (at
> >    >least not as they are today) without taking free code (from BSD)
> >    and
> >    >making it non-free. The argument here is clear: copyright can be
> >    a
> >    >tool to protect free software.
> >    >
> >    >Industry forces
> >    >
> >    >This section isn't very articulate, sorry. Probably unnecessary
> >    as
> >    >well, skip if it if you're busy and you can come back to it
> >    later.
> >    >
> >    >So long as we live in a capitalist society (disregarding any
> >    judgement
> >    >of it), money drives business and production. There is no reason
> >    that
> >    >giving things away for free is good for a business. It might not
> >    be
> >    >bad, and it may be made to work for many businesses, but is it
> >    really
> >    >the case that a particular business is better off financially by
> >    >making all the software they produce free? It may be better that
> >    the
> >    >industry/economy/world as whole would be better off, but
> >    businesses
> >    >tend to do what's best for them, and best for them in the short
> >    term
> >    >(hence privatizing everything, stocking up on IP, all sorts of
> >    stupid
> >    >wasted energy that genuinely keeps the particular business in its
> >    >position but holds everyone back collectively).
> >    >
> >    >Free software, IMHO, is produced in "enlightened self-interest",
> >    but
> >    >if the open source (business friendly, better software, better
> >    >development, etc) view is wrong, and free software isn't
> >    inherently
> >    >better for business, then copyright is an excellent tool to
> >    protect
> >    >free software (through copyleft licensing).
> >    >
> >    >Direct action
> >    >
> >    >What if we throw this framework out the window? Many grassroots
> >    social
> >    >movements have depended on civil disobedience. Free software has
> >    no
> >    >real form of protest. We, as users, can beg developers and
> >    companies
> >    >to play nice and free their code (which makes no sense for
> >    businesses
> >    >who make a killing off of proprietary software business models),
> >    and
> >    >we can boycott, refuse to use proprietary software (as I think we
> >    >should), but this is an extremely slow and painful way to get
> >    everyone
> >    >using free software, truly impractical to expect from people.
> >    >
> >    >We can work within this scope of trying to fix laws and prevent
> >    worse
> >    >laws from being enacted, but this is also slow and odds are not
> >    tilted
> >    >in our favor. We can keep making free software, since we need
> >    that,
> >    >but that's just enough to keep the dream alive. What can we do
> >    that
> >    >truly disrupts the non-free media industry?
> >    >
> >    >Traditional tactics:
> >    >
> >    >Just to bang out a few of the worst...
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Murder (just using Wikipedia's list of tactics): Certainly
> >
> >    >  disruptive. Could yield results. In cases where software
> >    freedom is
> >    >  a matter of life and death (life and death is a bizarre
> >    >  construction, because everything impacts human lives to varying
> >    >  degrees, and sometimes the most indirect causes have the most
> >    >  profound impacts), this could be an attempt to save more lives
> >    than
> >    >  cost. On the other hand, it could just be murder.
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Assault: Scare tactic similar to murder.
> >    >
> >    >* Property destruction: If so much can be destroyed that it is no
> >
> >    >  longer profitable to make non-free works, then this could be an
> >    >  effective tactic, even if it is marked as terrorism. On the
> >    other
> >    >  hand, it would take a shit-ton of destruction and the type of
> >    people
> >    >  willing to do that for...software.
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Sabotage: Usually requires insiders. Very risky. Similar effect
> >    on
> >
> >    >  perceived legitimacy.
> >    >
> >    >Okay, so even when applied tactically (cutting off power or
> >    internet
> >    >connection rather than burning down a building) we're probably
> >    all in
> >    >agreement that those aren't good/feasible/sensible tactics. Let's
> >    move
> >    >on...
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Sit ins, human barricades, etc: Could disrupt a business but in
> >    the
> >
> >    >  unbelievable event that people would actually participate in
> >    such an
> >    >  event, large market forces will dismiss the demand for free
> >    code as
> >    >  communist, etc.
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Disruptive pranks: Make a mess or padlock gates to keep people
> >    from
> >
> >    >  working might have some impact, but again, this is probably
> >    stupid.
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Strikes, workplace occupations: Yeah, programmers are going to
> >
> >    >  demand their employers make code free and destroy the stable
> >    >  business model that results in a paycheck?
> >    >
> >    >These traditional tactics tend to be successful for issues more
> >    in the
> >    >public eye. Are there no tactics that are particularly good at
> >    >disrupting the business of proprietary software and non-free
> >    works?
> >    >Does it really just boil down to educating users, begging
> >    non-free
> >    >producers, and cheerleading for free ones? Are any of these
> >    tactics
> >    >actually useful (or would they be, if we did a better job of
> >    educating
> >    >people on free culture issues)?
> >    >
> >    >So, what ideas do you have for direct action techniques
> >    specifically
> >    >to further free software and free culture?
> >    >
> >    >Here are some:
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Piracy: but it doesn't make proprietary software free.
> >    >
> >    >* Leak source code: Illegal to use, any software which does will
> >
> >    >  likely have a tough time getting mass-adoption, but still
> >    awesome
> >    >  for reverse engineering formats and protocols.
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Hacktivism: These are cool, but usually not very democratic.
> >    Either
> >
> >    >  a capable person/group to deface a web page, or masses of
> >    people
> >    >  would be required to DDoS one. Still, how cool would it be to
> >    have
> >    >  the Sony website showing some images about DRM and suing
> >    hackers?
> >    >
> >
> >    >* Email bombing: Maybe, difficult to get mass participation.
> >    >
> >    >* Your idea here!
> >    _______________________________________________
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> >    [email protected]
> >    http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >    FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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