Hi Alan, Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:26 AM, Alan Coopersmith <[email protected]> wrote: > On 01/14/13 10:16 PM, David Halko wrote: >> This could be an interesting thought. I don't know if this is what you mean, >> but >> let me make an attempt at what I think about application and service >> dependencies. Package dependencies could become automatic if done according >> to >> linked libraries. >> >> During the release phase, ldd's could be done against the binaries >> (automatically), provide a listing of ".so" files, those files looked up in >> the >> external universal NIS/LDAP directory for packages, and dependencies >> automatically mapped... so if people grab binaries and move them into legacy >> packages (i.e. lp, uucp, etc.) - the automatic dependency resolver would >> find it >> and update the LDAP/NIS directory. >> >> A similar thing could be done, looking for file names identified via "open" >> system call in binaries sh/ksh/bash script files, depending on how complex we >> would like to get? > > Congratulations, you've just reinvented IPS - just change "NIS/LDAP directory" > to "HTTP directory" and that's what pretty much exactly what pkgdepend does. > > http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E26502_01/html/E21383/pkgcreate.html#gluee > http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E26502_01/html/E29030/pkgdepend-1.html > > So if that's the good way, then what's wrong with IPS again? Maybe I should not have stood up to defend dependency checking in IPS? ;-) I think nearly all of the voiced concerns are still valid... plus a few new concerns: - IPS is it's own OS proprietary format - there will be differing IPS implementations with dufferent features with possible future incompatibilities as Oracle continues it's closed source track on patching & enhancing - Illumos will continue to have to spend precious engineering time "reverse engineer" or decide to let the proprietary IPS diverge - IPS is "heavy" with additional language and packaging requirements (honestly, old Sun SVR4 interfaces have some language junk which could be culled since it is not required by core functionality.) - LDAP or NIS is core OS functionality and pkgadd alteady had HTTP functionality... while the HTTP methodology in IPS is yet another proprietary mechanism to learn and maintain - There is little backward compatibility from IPS with the existing SVR4 package system, except SVR4 packaging exists - software from ISV's have SVR4 packaging, few have IPS packaging (not good for the horizon.) - SVR4 packaging is a standard, which can now be extended with impunity, since Oracle is no longer driving it. - IPS is less "feature filled" (with exception of dependency resolution)... SVR4 packaging could go on a diet, add class components for services (and other directory databases like users, groups, hosts, etc. with no code changes, but merely conventions), function more closely to IPS (or superior), and not create a level of confusion in 5 more years with package maintainers when Oracle IPS diverges from Illumos with their packaging system. If SVR4 is dropped by Oracle in 5 years, that would leave Illumos driving what would be an Open Standard... an enviable place to be. This is especially the case since SVR4 packaging does not require kernel hooks, so it could effectively be used by any open source community down-stream. A federated directory distro model for dependencies could expand the ecosystem for Illumos with users/developers from outside Solaris community without license incompatibilities, while a code/bug incompatible IPS distro just isolates all the Sun Solaris, OpenSolaris, Oracle Solaris 11, and Illumos camps... doing no one any good in any of them. There is goodness in both IPS and SVR4 packaging... there are drawbacks, too. We are too close to the edge not to be looking into the abyss with both eyes open before we jump. I guess the stone stairs behind me are looking a little worn, but not so bad. A lot of engineering has gone into Oracle IPS, which serves us well. A lot more engineering will continue to go into IPS - which serves Oracle users well. The question in my mind is: what will serve us well, with the constraints put upon us. Just another perspective... Dave > -- > -Alan Coopersmith- [email protected] > Oracle Solaris Engineering - http://blogs.oracle.com/alanc ------------------------------------------- illumos-discuss Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/182180/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/182180/21175430-2e6923be Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21175430&id_secret=21175430-6a77cda4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
