Brent, I want to add just a couple of more things:
You wrote: "Traditionally (on paper topographic maps) the graticule labels have been shown outside the mapped area and most GIS applications can't handle this unless they implement some kind of page layout functionality." This is true in most cases, but does not have to be so. For example, I could easily write a plug-in for OpenJUMP that creates and exports the necessary SVG or PNG for graticule and graticule labels for a specified page size. Then you could just import this into Inkscape or Scribus. You wrote: "And forget about the generic page layout programs placing a graticule as they have no world coordinate system functionality (without a plugin)." Roger that. You'll need to export the graticule information as a separate graphic as I described above. Brent wrote: "So perhaps your solution is the answer: create open source mappping plugins for the page layout projects you've listed (and stop expecting GIS programs to layout and print a map). I'll have to look into that..." That is exactly what I am talking about. Maybe this topic deserves a little mailing list and a small wiki site. A place to explore and discuss using open source graphics design tools to produce maps in collaboration with open source mapping tools. But then again, maybe it doesn't. :] Landon (A.K.A. - The Sunburned Surveyor) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brent Fraser Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:18 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Sourcesoftwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? Landon, It's an interesting problem. From my perspective, a map without a graticule, scale bar, and projection statement (with parameter values!) is just a diagram (kind of like a tiff without geotiff tags or shapefile without a .prj file). It can be useful, but don't try to integrate any spatial data or measure any coordinates. A graticule straddles the spatial (GIS/drawing programs) and graphic (page layout) domains. Traditionally (on paper topographic maps) the graticule labels have been shown outside the mapped area and most GIS applications can't handle this unless they implement some kind of page layout functionality. And forget about the generic page layout programs placing a graticule as they have no world coordinate system functionality (without a plugin). So perhaps your solution is the answer: create open source mappping plugins for the page layout projects you've listed (and stop expecting GIS programs to layout and print a map). I'll have to look into that... And for you MapServer implementers, a homework assignment: create margins on your map with inline polygons to blank out the map data and emphasize your GRID labels (see attached map, er I mean diagram). Thanks! Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Landon Blake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OSGeo Discussions" <discuss@lists.osgeo.org> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source softwareapplicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? I've given this issue a lot of thought. It seems to me that "cartographic" map production really involves two (2) separate functions: [1] The ability to draw graphics and annotations. [2] The ability to layout graphical elements on a page or sheet. I think it is easy to underestimate the complexity of these two (2) functions. A GIS program will be a lot simpler and easier to maintain if it doesn't tackle these two (2) functions at all, but instead focuses on the management of spatial data. Really the display of this spatial data on a computer screen is just part of the user interface that helps the user manage the data. I think it is a lot smarter to leave the drawing to the drawing programs and the page layout to the page layout programs. For example, there is some limited support for printing and page layout in OpenJUMP via plug-ins, but it isn't anything terribly sophisticated. I think the best solution for the open source geospatial community is to export spatial data from our programs in an open format for graphics like SVG, and then enhance those graphics in an open source drawing program like Inkscape and layout map sheets in an open source desktop publishing application like Scribus. Imagine what we could accomplish as a community if we all used Inkscape and Scribus for cartographic map production instead of designing our own map production functionality. Imagine what could be accomplished if we took that time we would invest in implementing the drawing and page layout functionality that already existed in some high-quality applications and invested it instead in the other functions of our applications, or even better, in the drawing and page layout applications that we would use as replacements. I've contacted the Inkscape development team to ask about contributing. I have plans on helping out with the lib2geom library that will be integrated into Inkscape, although it means I need to learn C++, which gives me a serious headache. I haven't had time to get involved like I would want, but it is still an eventual goal of mine. I really encourage the open source geospatial community to take close look at Scribus and Inkscape as options for cartographic map production. OpenJUMP can export SVG, and some of our users have made beautiful maps with the two programs. I really don't think there is much you couldn't do in the realm of 2D maps with the two programs. There is even the potential here to share standard map sheet templates for Scribus and SVG graphics for things like north arrows and scale bars for Inkscape. Landon Blake (The Sunburned Surveyor) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brent Fraser Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software applicationthatwill draw a graticule on a map? Puneet, I'm hoping that (someday?) high quality cartography WILL be point-and-click. The three apps I looked at come pretty close: uDig - sophisticated, complicated GUI; focus on GIS not cartography QGIS - simple GUI, a print composer, but features (e.g. a real graticule) missing gvSIG - look and feel of ArcView 3.x (the good and the bad), but no graticule I think Paul Ramsey said it best in the Directions Mag interview (http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2517&tr v=1): "The first project to produce a stable and complete ArcView 3 replacement will gobble up a huge user share, and become the default application for building the "high end" analysis and cartography functionality." Brent Fraser GeoAnalytic Inc. Calgary, Alberta ----- Original Message ----- From: "P Kishor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OSGeo Discussions" <discuss@lists.osgeo.org> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is there an Open Source software application thatwill draw a graticule on a map? > On 9/6/07, Brent Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ,, > > Yikes! Is National-Topographic-Series quality cartography > > dead? Am I destined to print only pastel polygon "diagrams" > > on letter size paper if I adopt Open Source? ;) > > Write an emai to Markus Neteler and ask him for samples of stuff he > has produced with Grass, a real GIS. The quality will blow you away. > Granted, I have not seen that stuff on a large piece of paper, but > even on the screen, it looks gorgeous. It is probably not easy to > produce that kind of stuff, but good quality stuff never is point and > click. > > (MapServer is not a GIS... it says so on the box it comes in). > > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss