So did we decide what we would geographic region we would include in a "North American chapter"? How would this chapter interact or relate to existing chapters in the United States and other parts of North America?
Landon On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Jean-Philippe Lagrange <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Adrian, > > I agree that being a non native speaker, I may misunderstand some sentences. > However, you wrote: > 'you have to include France as well in North America for the > two itty, bitty islands it claims of the eastern coast---doesn't > territorial occupation suck?'. > Am I inventing in finding this sentence somewhat disparaging? > You could use another word than 'occupation', couldn't you? > Would 'territorial occupation' have no link with 'occupied territories'? > > Anyway, this matter is not worth long exchanges! > > Best, > Jean-Philippe > > ________________________________________ > De : Adrian Custer [[email protected]] > Date d'envoi : dimanche 13 novembre 2011 18:27 > À : Jean-Philippe Lagrange; OSGeo Discussions > Objet : Distracting discussions of discussing [was:] What is North America? > > On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 10:07 +0100, Jean-Philippe Lagrange wrote: >> Hi Adrian, >> >> Should now French people feel some prejudice because of your disparaging >> words? > > Jean-Phillipe Lagrange, > > There were no "disparaging words" in my email. I am a native speaker of > English so I know how to use the language pretty well to have it say > what I mean to say rather than something else. Also, I had no intent to > disparage the people of the country where I was born, where I have spent > the past few years, and where part of my family lives. So if you have > read something you find disparaging of yourself or others in my email, > please know that you have invented it. > > Also, since these emails are (1) lighthearted (2) ironic and (3) joking, > it would be best if everyone made the effort to read them looking for > irony and happiness rather than looking for insults. Arnulf is playing > on the tensions between 'north americans' and others in the americas, > playing on the history of violent confrontation between those groups. He > is playing in order to, light heartedly, call into question what 'North > american' might mean for a regional chapter of OSGeo. That is the > interesting question. > > The rest of this bantering is merely irrelevant irreverent political > banter. Even 'gringo' that started this all, is, in my experience, used > much more frequently as a statement of fact, or as a lighthearted > comment, than as a direct insult. I personally found it much quicker to > call myself a 'gringo' than the mouthful 'estado unidense' or 'norte > americano'. Daniel, to my surprise, finds the term obviously and clearly > insulting. Such is the spectrum of human experience. Nonetheless, I > suspect we all can recognize that Arnulf did not start his email trying > to insult people but rather, in a fit of his boundless energy, to spark > a discussion about the OSGeo chapter. > > ~adrian > > > PS If you still consider my mail insulting, I would be glad to reassure > you that it was not written that way. Contact me directly, in french if > you like, and we can resolve this offline. > >> Should we follow up by wondering what natives of Northern America >> think of 'occupation which sucks'? > > By all means. Although, if you look at my last name, you will perhaps > understand that I usually start with the genocidal conquest of these > united states rather than end up considering it. > >> >> Such consideration do not lead anybody anywhere. Nowadays borders are >> a result of history, including past wars, and nobody should argue too >> much against the formers, for we do not want the latters to develop >> again among nations. > > Actually, many people do argue against and question borders; others try > to undermine the nation states and focus on human well being instead. > >> By the way, French Islands in your area do not stop at two bitty islands >> off the Eastern coast, you may also include French Antillas, > > Except that this was the whole point of Arnulf's email; the carribean is > almost never considered part of 'north america' despite being (1) in the > americas and (2) north of the equator. Nor is the much more sizeable > Mexico. > >> not so far >> from Puerto Rico, recently added to the USA. >> >> Best, >> JP >> ________________________________________ >> De : [email protected] [[email protected]] de la >> part de Adrian Custer [[email protected]] >> Date d'envoi : vendredi 11 novembre 2011 20:25 >> À : OSGeo Discussions >> Objet : Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] What is North America? >> >> On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 11:29 +0100, Seven (aka Arnulf) wrote: >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > Now that a North American Regional Chapter is emerging I wanted to >> > understand what the term "North America" actually means. Just a few >> > example: >> > >> > In my cultural context (Germany) the Unites States on their own are >> > typically called "Amerika" which in reality is a whole continent. To >> > many Germans Kanada (yes, with a "K") is just a US wilderness adventure >> > park (Canadians: no offence meant). In many South American countries US >> > citizens are nowadays called "Gringo" which originally meant "Green Go" >> > and relates to US "interventions" in Middle and Southern America. >> > >> > So for many non-North-Americans the term might be really, really fuzzy >> > which is why I thought it would be a good idea to define it more >> > closely, started here: >> > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Talk:North_America_Regional >> > >> > Looking at the typical roles of a local chapter (or in this case a "meta >> > local chapter" or "regional chapter") I would suggest that this chapter >> > would be the primary point of contact for the organization of a FOSS4G >> > event in English language in either the US or Canada. Extending it >> > beyond these two countries would probably raise a whole lot of >> > additional issues starting with language (Spanish) and ending with >> > politics (Cuba) - which will probably complicate things beyond >> > recognition. I can also see other meta chapters forming with a more >> > Spanish speaking background in the Middle Americas, so there is no >> > exclusivity here at all. The Spanish speaking Local Chapter might also >> > be a good template to see how this could look. >> > >> > But anything I say here is absolutely not fundamental at all, just 2ct >> > from an outsider (sent in the hope that this list will see a broadly >> > inclusive dialog about how this group will evolve). >> > >> > Have fun, >> > Arnulf >> >> What a strange mail. >> >> If you are playing with a definition based on geography and nation >> states, then you have to include France as well in North America for the >> two itty, bitty islands it claims of the eastern coast---doesn't >> territorial occupation suck? >> >> Your language argument, however, seems to abandon any geographic basis >> and focus on English based on some definition by cultural domination. >> For a geographic definition, you would have to include French both for >> Québec and for the French territories in the Atlantic(vis above). To be >> realistic, you should probably include Spanish a well since that is an >> officially supported language in many regions of America, north of the >> Rio Grande. Finally, if you wanted to be correct, then there are many, >> many other languages spoken here, many of which are native to the >> geographic region. >> >> Then again, if you leave things vague, then people who want to do 'free >> software' in 'the general area around the great lakes' might all want to >> play. Oh sorry, not the people focused on freedom, the people focused on >> 'openness' of source 'code' for whatever benefit that might bring. >> >> But anything I say here is absolutely a waste of time. >> >> ~adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
