Arnulf,
Yes, the news articles focus of "Open Source beats big bad vendor"
failed to mention all the hard lobbying from a number of OGC members and
I was a little embarrassed that the article over-emphasised my involvement.
However, one thing that I think the OGC can learn is that the reasons
ESRI gave for withdrawing were all raised earlier (as you mention) and
were discounted. It was only after intense lobbying at the 11th hour (of
which OSGeo was a part) that ESRI finally actioned community concern.
On 6/06/2013 5:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
+ 1/2
I agree with much of Arnulf's commentary, and as an OSGEO member who
did sign the letter, my reasons were not primarily philosophical or
technical, but political. Heavy sigh :-)
For some years I have been working towards data sharing &
interoperability between a wide range of national & international
environmental agencies. "OGC compliant" has become a catchword
representing the progress we have made, mostly using WMS, WFS, CSW &
SOS. From my perspective, introducing a standard that enabled "OGC
compliance" but failed to provide the interoperability was a retrogade
step - irrespective of technical merits. I admit this is only one
perspective & others may feel differently but it was my primary
motivation.
I have no doubt that giving the FOSS GIS community open access to ESRI
protocols would indeed give the FOSS community a situation they would
successfully take advantage of, but I believe there is a better way
forward, & hopefully we are heading there.
I don't know how much the "open source" input had to do with ESRI
withdrawing. I don't really care why ESRI does what it does, I do care
about what my community does, & I'm very pleased with the result.
I think one longer term outcome will be a better RESTful API, that is
perhaps largely ESRI compatible, but addresses some of the technical
issues that have been mentioned.
I believe that both OSGEO & OGC have represented the majority of their
stakeholders well, and have made considered decisions that lead
forward. Robust (rather than acrimonious or self righteous) debate is
the best way for communities to determine the best way forward, & I'd
say the vast majority of the commentary I've followed has been robust
& rational, which is very positive.
From a cynical perspective, for what is basically a group of
committees, the issue & outcome have been remarkably open, widely
discussed by well informed experts, & have resulted in what I think is
a sensible decision.
What more can be asked of a committee?
Congratulations to all those who participated!!
Brent Wood
--- On *Thu, 6/6/13, Baumann, Peter
/<[email protected]>/* wrote:
From: Baumann, Peter <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Standards] "Geoservices REST
API" story is being discussed on slashdot
To: "Seven (aka Arnulf)" <[email protected]>, "OSGeo Discussions"
<[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, June 6, 2013, 2:32 AM
+1, a very balanced viewpoint indeed!
-Peter
--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
mail: [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
http://www.rasdaman.com, mail:[email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola
incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei
reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
________________________________________
From: [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
[[email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>] on behalf of
Seven (aka Arnulf) [[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 3:56 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions; [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] [OSGeo-Discuss] "Geoservices REST
API" story is being discussed on slashdot
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Folks,
lets not get carried away. The decision esri took depended on many
factors and I have a hard time mapping it directly and exclusively to
the engagement of open sauce (fudzilla original) developers.
Don't get me wrong, I think the initiative by OSGeo showed that we are
functioning nicely and that we have our act together (I say we
although I did not sign the submitted paper). But to say that esri
took the decision to withdraw the standard proposal because of Open
Source is simply not justified.
There was a long debate and discussions and even some dialog on all
levels inside and outside of the OGC by many members and externals for
two years! It was a good discussion and everybody involved learned a
lot. The OGC showed its willingness to change and open their processes
to better fit the way things evolve these days. This is ongoing.
Yes, there was also input from OSGeo but in my opinion pretty late in
the game. We (at least on this list) have known of this effort by esri
since June 2011 two years ago:
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/standards/2012-July/000456.html
(thanks to Bart)
We were reminded several times, for example in July 2012 by Volker:
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/standards/2012-July/000456.html
...plus there were several posts from the OGC in their regular
channels for those who care.
Has the standard been removed for technical reasons? I think not. It
was because of a backlash of the broader geospatial developer (or
rather business?) community (Nota Bene: not only us Open Source
heroes). And the reasons were fear of the market leader taking over.
Taking over what exactly?
I am still not convinced that the result of this standard would have
been detrimental to Open Source. How that? There is a good chance that
it would have opened up all current esri clients for Open Source code
because the proposed standard goes right into the underwear of esri's
ArcGIS. Having the specification in the OGC would have guaranteed that
it would not be dropped or changed in a proprietary whim. Every single
esri client would have had the chance to get some Open Source pieces
into their game, be it on the client or the server side. Then learn
that it is more stable, evolves quicker and can replace the other esri
stuff over time. Simple as that.
Chance passed, but no problem, we'll get another one.
For those unsure whether I turned bad: Nope, I didn't. I still don't
get paid by esri and I still know (not believe) that Open Source is
the better way forward and it is all happening already anyway. But
when it comes to politics and strategy we must acknowledge that things
are not black and white but come in all colors (no, not shades of gray
:-).
Have fun,
Arnulf
On 04.06.2013 22:41, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> The "Geoservices REST API" story has been picked up by ITNews,
> Slashdot, and Fudzilla, and is being discussed by their communities
> in the comments.
>
>
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/345493,open-source-crusade-blocks-geospatial-standard.aspx/0
>
>
>
>
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/06/03/2229245/gis-community-blocks-esris-geospatial-open-standard-rest-api
>
>
>
>
http://fudzilla.com/home/item/31581-open-sources-revolt-against-standard
>
>
- --
Exploring Space, Time and Mind
http://arnulf.us
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