Sorry if I repeat myself but the post was in parallel to mine and
Lauentiu might not have read mine due to that. As a German citizen I can
not let this go unanswered >>> From *Laurențiu Nicola* >>> First, was
that a Nazi salute? Only Musk would know for sure, but the gesture is
centuries-old (at least, I suspect more) >>> and the context doesn't
feel quite right. For what it's worth, many Jews and Jewish associations
weren't bothered by it, >>> and I'm inclined to trust them on that. He
should apologize, but given his personality, that's not going to happen.
>>> I hope the tendency in our society to make foolish excuses for
obvious actions will stop altogether. What really does not matter is
whether the person /meant/ it to be a Nazi salute—the important thing is
that it /obviously/ was one.
As someone else posted in this thread, this is exactly the kind of
problem described here: Paradoxoftolerance
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance>.
There is no excuse for him not to apologize, no matter what. And if you
haven’t heard any Jewish voices complaining, let me, as a German, object
with all I have. This is gut-wrenching. Let me just say this much—many
in my family died because of the Nazis.
The body language while speaking is 100% unmistakable. It’s the Roman
greeting, which later became the Mussolini and Nazi salute, and he did
it twice on the world stage.
To be clear and to summarize: It wasn’t something "like" a Nazi
salute—no, it was /exactly/ that, done twice, and on the world stage!
Actions must lead to consequences. There is zero doubt about what he did
and about what he intentionally displayed on the world stage. The guy is
not some idiot who does not know what he does. This was no harmless fun
talk between friends in a local bar. There can be absolutely no foolish
excuses. There must be no tolerance for this. Neo-Nazis have already
celebrated what happened!
>>> So to sum up: >>> - I'm not convinced that was a Nazi salute, but I
don't think it matters too much, I could not disagree more. This
essentially is all that matters. Let me add this sarcastic quote from
someone on Youtube: "Just because he retweets Nazis and endorses the
modern Nazi party of Germany and embraces Nazi ideology and makes the
Nazi salute doesn’t mean he’s a Nazi. It’s probably just an unfortunate
coincidence." >>> - I think we should be posting on the X account, but
if we don't, we should remove the link >>> - we have to add a Mastodon
link >>> - if we feel that using X means endorsing Musk and Trump, we
shouldn't post there >>> - I've seen so many "worse than Musk" people on
the other social networks that I can't endorse them in good faith either
>>> Laurentiu
Best Karsten
On 1/21/2025 23:24, Karsten Vennemann wrote:
I do agree in general that there should be a transparent decision
process yes
On 1/21/2025 18:38, Gabriel Roldan via Discuss wrote:
“My heart goes out to you” doesn’t seem Nazi at all to me. Although
maybe little Adolf might have said that sometime, I don’t know
really. I do hope though if you sometime see me trying to stop a taxi
or calling a friend’s attention from a distance you won’t make the
same assumption about my political preferen
Dear Gabriel, I do not know what nationality you are, mine is German
and as such (with the dark history of my country in regards to the
Nazis which undoubtedly distinctly influences everyone's upbringing
and education there) I am extremely sensitive with this subject. Let
me just say this much - many in my family died due to the Nazis...
Thus, while what the person said does not qualify as anything
objectionable, the body language while speaking is 100% unmistakable.
It’s the Roman greeting, which later became the Mussolini and Nazi
salute, and he did it twice on the world stage. To be clear and
summarize: It was not something "like" a Nazi salute, no - it was
exactly that, twice, and on the world stage!
Actions must lead to consequences. There is zero doubt about what he
did and about what he intentionally displayed on the world stage. The
guy is not some idiot who does not know what he does. This was no
harmless fun talk between friends in a local bar. There can be
absolutely no foolish excuses. There must be no tolerance for this.
Neo-Nazis have already celebrated what happened!
In Germany, you would be prosecuted and could go to jail for such
actions—and rightfully so. As Germans, we learned the hard way (at
least my ancestors did) when we lost our country. My German history
teachers in school taught me, /“You cannot debate with a Nazi.”/ At
that point, it is already too late.
Such things must be stopped at the very beginning, before it is too
late. This cannot be tolerated. Full stop.
I fully support a decision to remove anything related to the person in
question or companies he is involved with from being associated with
any OSGeo content everywhere. I also support that the process of such
a decision being transparent and orderly, though.
Best regards
Karsten Vennemann
El El mar, 21 ene 2025 a la(s) 6:59 p. m., Even Rouault via Discuss
<discuss@lists.osgeo.org> escribió:
Le 21/01/2025 à 22:24, Jody Garnett a écrit :
> Yeah updating the website socials has a plan drawn up, but need
> volunteers or budget.
Jody, we are not going to find excuses by saying that removing
the bird
icon from www.osgeo.org <http://www.osgeo.org> in WP requires a
budget, right... I'm currently
logged in in wordpress trying to find where it is. I probably
don't have
the appropriate rights to do so, but I'd assume this should be a 30
second task for someone slightly knowledgeable...
Even
--
http://www.spatialys.com
My software is free, but my time generally not.
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*Terra GIS LTD *
2119 Boyer Ave E
Seattle, WA 98112
Tel ++1 206 905 1711
_www.terragis.net <http://www.terragis.net/>_
--
Karsten Vennemann
*Terra GIS LTD *
2119 Boyer Ave E
Seattle, WA 98112
Tel ++1 206 905 1711
_www.terragis.net <http://www.terragis.net/>_
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