-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It is effectively - as I understand it - the situation we're in. The
alternative to "waiving" the current lease is a useless legal battle
where we end up - at best - with winning and having to leave in 6 months
regardless.

Ron

On 2012-10-25 10:42, Jay Smith wrote:
> I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but it
> isn't correct.
> 
> - We have not waved the old lease
> - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we
> can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have
> not yet recognized it as an official lease.
> - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many ideas
> being discussed.
> - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding
> discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone).
> 
> Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term.
> >
> >
> > Here is the actual chat log.  (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is Ron.)
> >
> >
> >  [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month
> > clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease (legal
> > if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately
> > [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be
> > difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let them
> > [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current
> > terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Who said we waived our rights?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid
> >>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause.
> >>>
> >>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to the
> >>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new 
> >>> utility
> >>> bills).
> >>>
> >>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the
> >>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at appropriate
> >>> terms.  They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, costs.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Siu,
> >>>>
> >>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary
> >>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the
> >>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on whether
> >>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money
> >>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical
> >>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs.
> >>>>
> >>>> ~Justin
> >>>>
> >>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future contract
> >>>> then it
> >>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to pay
> >>>> it
> >>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is.
> >>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but it's not
> >>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to.
> >>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is
> >>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track
> >>>> record.
> >>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but
> >>>> perhaps it
> >>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if we
> >>>> stay.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of
> >>>> signing
> >>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are.  It's illegal for
> >>>> them to
> >>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we never
> >>>> had a
> >>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least.  They certainly
> >>>> collected
> >>>> >> rent in accordance with it.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a lawyer to
> >>>> see
> >>>> >> the contracts?  I understand it's an extra expense, but I've already
> >>>> offered
> >>>> >> to cover that.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>> >>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying
> >>>> "your new
> >>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only sketchy
> >>>> thing
> >>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that
> >>>> isn't
> >>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Ron
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote:
> >>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant difference
> >>>> >>> > whether or
> >>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal.  If they've been legal, then
> >>>> we
> >>>> >>> > can
> >>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their
> >>>> contracts
> >>>> >>> > with
> >>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a lawyer
> >>>> for
> >>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so
> >>>> >>> > > consistently, and
> >>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them.
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its
> >>>> progressed.
> >>>> >>> > > Why
> >>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us?
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us,
> >>>> based on
> >>>> >>> > > the
> >>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. For
> >>>> >>> > > example, if
> >>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. And
> >>>> >>> > > Assentworks
> >>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave.
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and personal
> >>>> >>> > > projects.
> >>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be
> >>>> >>> > > disassembled.
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make plans
> >>>> - one
> >>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build
> >>>> everything.
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor layout,
> >>>> and let
> >>>> >>> > > it
> >>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage.
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>>> >>> > Help:
> >>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>>> >>> > Archive:
> >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s
> >>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk
> >>>> >>> =/z5o
> >>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>>> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>>> >>> Archive:
> >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>>> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
> >

> _______________________________________________
> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlCJXqYACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/Tg1QCg2AGo5b7qeX9EpnDrUdrylUlW
nEUAn0HyFyokoA8yKM1AKmQSMV8P5KVa
=Yyj0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/

Reply via email to