Regardless of how the alternatives might look, we have NOT waived the old lease.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > It is effectively - as I understand it - the situation we're in. The > alternative to "waiving" the current lease is a useless legal battle > where we end up - at best - with winning and having to leave in 6 months > regardless. > > Ron > > On 2012-10-25 10:42, Jay Smith wrote: > > I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but > it > > isn't correct. > > > > - We have not waved the old lease > > - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we > > can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have > > not yet recognized it as an official lease. > > - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many > ideas > > being discussed. > > - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding > > discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone). > > > > Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet. > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term. > > > > > > > > > Here is the actual chat log. (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is > Ron.) > > > > > > > > > [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month > > > clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease > (legal > > > if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be > > > difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let > them > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current > > > terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick < > [email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Who said we waived our rights? > > >> > > >> > > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid > > >>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause. > > >>> > > >>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to > the > > >>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new > utility > > >>> bills). > > >>> > > >>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the > > >>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at > appropriate > > >>> terms. They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, > costs. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Siu, > > >>>> > > >>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary > > >>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the > > >>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on > whether > > >>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money > > >>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical > > >>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs. > > >>>> > > >>>> ~Justin > > >>>> > > >>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future > contract > > >>>> then it > > >>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to > pay > > >>>> it > > >>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is. > > >>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but > it's not > > >>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to. > > >>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is > > >>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track > > >>>> record. > > >>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but > > >>>> perhaps it > > >>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if > we > > >>>> stay. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of > > >>>> signing > > >>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are. It's illegal > for > > >>>> them to > > >>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract. > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we > never > > >>>> had a > > >>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least. They certainly > > >>>> collected > > >>>> >> rent in accordance with it. > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a > lawyer to > > >>>> see > > >>>> >> the contracts? I understand it's an extra expense, but I've > already > > >>>> offered > > >>>> >> to cover that. > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >>>> >>> Hash: SHA1 > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying > > >>>> "your new > > >>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only > sketchy > > >>>> thing > > >>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that > > >>>> isn't > > >>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried. > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> Ron > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote: > > >>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant > difference > > >>>> >>> > whether or > > >>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal. If they've been legal, > then > > >>>> we > > >>>> >>> > can > > >>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their > > >>>> contracts > > >>>> >>> > with > > >>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all. > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a > lawyer > > >>>> for > > >>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*. > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> >>> > > > >>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so > > >>>> >>> > > consistently, and > > >>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them. > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its > > >>>> progressed. > > >>>> >>> > > Why > > >>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us? > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us, > > >>>> based on > > >>>> >>> > > the > > >>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. > For > > >>>> >>> > > example, if > > >>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. > And > > >>>> >>> > > Assentworks > > >>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave. > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and > personal > > >>>> >>> > > projects. > > >>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be > > >>>> >>> > > disassembled. > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make > plans > > >>>> - one > > >>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build > > >>>> everything. > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor > layout, > > >>>> and let > > >>>> >>> > > it > > >>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage. > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>>> >>> > Help: > > >>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>>> >>> > Archive: > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > >>>> >>> > > >>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s > > >>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk > > >>>> >>> =/z5o > > >>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>>> >>> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>>> >>> Archive: > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>>> >> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>>> >> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>>> > Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>>> > Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>>> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAlCJXqYACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/Tg1QCg2AGo5b7qeX9EpnDrUdrylUlW > nEUAn0HyFyokoA8yKM1AKmQSMV8P5KVa > =Yyj0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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