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Not officially, but barring any craziness, isn't that the plan?

Ron

On 2012-10-25 10:49, Jay Smith wrote:
> Regardless of how the alternatives might look, we have NOT waived the old
> lease.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
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> > It is effectively - as I understand it - the situation we're in. The
> > alternative to "waiving" the current lease is a useless legal battle
> > where we end up - at best - with winning and having to leave in 6 months
> > regardless.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > On 2012-10-25 10:42, Jay Smith wrote:
> > > I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but
> > it
> > > isn't correct.
> > >
> > > - We have not waved the old lease
> > > - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we
> > > can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have
> > > not yet recognized it as an official lease.
> > > - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many
> > ideas
> > > being discussed.
> > > - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding
> > > discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone).
> > >
> > > Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here is the actual chat log.  (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is
> > Ron.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month
> > > > clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease
> > (legal
> > > > if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately
> > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be
> > > > difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let
> > them
> > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current
> > > > terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick <
> > [email protected]
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Who said we waived our rights?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid
> > > >>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to
> > the
> > > >>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new
> > utility
> > > >>> bills).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the
> > > >>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at
> > appropriate
> > > >>> terms.  They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher,
> > costs.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Siu,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary
> > > >>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the
> > > >>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on
> > whether
> > > >>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money
> > > >>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical
> > > >>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ~Justin
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future
> > contract
> > > >>>> then it
> > > >>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to
> > pay
> > > >>>> it
> > > >>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is.
> > > >>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but
> > it's not
> > > >>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to.
> > > >>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is
> > > >>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track
> > > >>>> record.
> > > >>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but
> > > >>>> perhaps it
> > > >>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if
> > we
> > > >>>> stay.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of
> > > >>>> signing
> > > >>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are.  It's illegal
> > for
> > > >>>> them to
> > > >>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract.
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we
> > never
> > > >>>> had a
> > > >>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least.  They certainly
> > > >>>> collected
> > > >>>> >> rent in accordance with it.
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a
> > lawyer to
> > > >>>> see
> > > >>>> >> the contracts?  I understand it's an extra expense, but I've
> > already
> > > >>>> offered
> > > >>>> >> to cover that.
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >>
> > > >>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>> >>>
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> > > >>>> >>> Hash: SHA1
> > > >>>> >>>
> > > >>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying
> > > >>>> "your new
> > > >>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only
> > sketchy
> > > >>>> thing
> > > >>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that
> > > >>>> isn't
> > > >>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried.
> > > >>>> >>>
> > > >>>> >>> Ron
> > > >>>> >>>
> > > >>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote:
> > > >>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant
> > difference
> > > >>>> >>> > whether or
> > > >>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal.  If they've been legal,
> > then
> > > >>>> we
> > > >>>> >>> > can
> > > >>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their
> > > >>>> contracts
> > > >>>> >>> > with
> > > >>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all.
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a
> > lawyer
> > > >>>> for
> > > >>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*.
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>> >>> >
> > > >>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so
> > > >>>> >>> > > consistently, and
> > > >>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them.
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its
> > > >>>> progressed.
> > > >>>> >>> > > Why
> > > >>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us?
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us,
> > > >>>> based on
> > > >>>> >>> > > the
> > > >>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important.
> > For
> > > >>>> >>> > > example, if
> > > >>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all.
> > And
> > > >>>> >>> > > Assentworks
> > > >>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave.
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and
> > personal
> > > >>>> >>> > > projects.
> > > >>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be
> > > >>>> >>> > > disassembled.
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make
> > plans
> > > >>>> - one
> > > >>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build
> > > >>>> everything.
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor
> > layout,
> > > >>>> and let
> > > >>>> >>> > > it
> > > >>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage.
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>> > >
> > > >>>> >>>
> > > >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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