That is the plan and hope, but we're not at the point where I can bar craziness. Therefore we have not waived the old lease.
That said, as Justin just mentioned, the hope is to make the status of the lease moot and do this in an entirely friendly manner. But we have not waived the old lease. On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Not officially, but barring any craziness, isn't that the plan? > > Ron > > On 2012-10-25 10:49, Jay Smith wrote: > > Regardless of how the alternatives might look, we have NOT waived the old > > lease. > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > It is effectively - as I understand it - the situation we're in. The > > > alternative to "waiving" the current lease is a useless legal battle > > > where we end up - at best - with winning and having to leave in 6 > months > > > regardless. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > On 2012-10-25 10:42, Jay Smith wrote: > > > > I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, > but > > > it > > > > isn't correct. > > > > > > > > - We have not waved the old lease > > > > - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is > that we > > > > can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we > have > > > > not yet recognized it as an official lease. > > > > - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many > > > ideas > > > > being discussed. > > > > - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding > > > > discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of > telephone). > > > > > > > > Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the actual chat log. (For those who don't know, iago-x86 > is > > > Ron.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 > month > > > > > clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease > > > (legal > > > > > if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately > > > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it > would be > > > > > difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to > let > > > them > > > > > [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our > current > > > > > terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Who said we waived our rights? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to > avoid > > > > >>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing > to > > > the > > > > >>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all > new > > > utility > > > > >>> bills). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of > the > > > > >>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at > > > appropriate > > > > >>> terms. They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, > > > costs. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Siu, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some > preliminary > > > > >>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond > the > > > > >>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on > > > whether > > > > >>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your > money > > > > >>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming > electrical > > > > >>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ~Justin > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick < > [email protected]> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future > > > contract > > > > >>>> then it > > > > >>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have > to > > > pay > > > > >>>> it > > > > >>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW > is. > > > > >>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but > > > it's not > > > > >>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to. > > > > >>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is > > > > >>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their > track > > > > >>>> record. > > > > >>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so > but > > > > >>>> perhaps it > > > > >>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with > AW if > > > we > > > > >>>> stay. > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole > point of > > > > >>>> signing > > > > >>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are. It's > illegal > > > for > > > > >>>> them to > > > > >>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract. > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we > > > never > > > > >>>> had a > > > > >>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least. They > certainly > > > > >>>> collected > > > > >>>> >> rent in accordance with it. > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a > > > lawyer to > > > > >>>> see > > > > >>>> >> the contracts? I understand it's an extra expense, but I've > > > already > > > > >>>> offered > > > > >>>> >> to cover that. > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > >>>> >>> Hash: SHA1 > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from > saying > > > > >>>> "your new > > > > >>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only > > > sketchy > > > > >>>> thing > > > > >>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but > that > > > > >>>> isn't > > > > >>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> Ron > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote: > > > > >>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant > > > difference > > > > >>>> >>> > whether or > > > > >>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal. If they've been > legal, > > > then > > > > >>>> we > > > > >>>> >>> > can > > > > >>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated > their > > > > >>>> contracts > > > > >>>> >>> > with > > > > >>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a > > > lawyer > > > > >>>> for > > > > >>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne < > [email protected]> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > >>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so > > > > >>>> >>> > > consistently, and > > > > >>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as > its > > > > >>>> progressed. > > > > >>>> >>> > > Why > > > > >>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us? > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with > us, > > > > >>>> based on > > > > >>>> >>> > > the > > > > >>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider > important. > > > For > > > > >>>> >>> > > example, if > > > > >>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them > all. > > > And > > > > >>>> >>> > > Assentworks > > > > >>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and > > > personal > > > > >>>> >>> > > projects. > > > > >>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can > be > > > > >>>> >>> > > disassembled. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to > make > > > plans > > > > >>>> - one > > > > >>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build > > > > >>>> everything. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor > > > layout, > > > > >>>> and let > > > > >>>> >>> > > it > > > > >>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage. > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>>> >>> > Help: > > > > >>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>>> >>> > Archive: > > > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > >>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > > > >>>> >>> > > > > >>>> >>> > iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s > > > > >>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk > > > > >>>> >>> =/z5o > > > > >>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>>> >>> Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>>> >>> Archive: > > > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>>> >> Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>>> >> Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>>> > Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>>> > Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>>> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>>> Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >>> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >>> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > > Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAlCJXqYACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/Tg1QCg2AGo5b7qeX9EpnDrUdrylUlW > > > nEUAn0HyFyokoA8yKM1AKmQSMV8P5KVa > > > =Yyj0 > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAlCJYK8ACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QE2gCfRk/r6nMK++V4jQT5IdXszT/n > D2AAoLaKg3tmlOhFnwBpr9AKydddahPh > =pKmY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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