Then will you let me take copies of our leases to a lawyer, to see where we
legally stand?

If you confirm today, I can do this before our Tuesday meeting and vote.  I
will, of course, pay all costs.

I'm getting all sorts of mixed messages here, including from multiple board
members.  I don't know where we currently stand, so I'm guessing no one
else does either.  :(





On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but
> it isn't correct.
>
> - We have not waved the old lease
> - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we
> can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have
> not yet recognized it as an official lease.
> - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many ideas
> being discussed.
> - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding
> discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone).
>
> Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term.
>>
>>
>> Here is the actual chat log.  (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is Ron.)
>>
>>
>>  [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month
>> clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease (legal
>> if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately
>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be
>> difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let them
>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current
>> terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Who said we waived our rights?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid
>>>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause.
>>>>
>>>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to the
>>>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new utility
>>>> bills).
>>>>
>>>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the
>>>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at appropriate
>>>> terms.  They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, costs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Siu,
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary
>>>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the
>>>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on whether
>>>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money
>>>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical
>>>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future contract
>>>>> then it
>>>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to pay
>>>>> it
>>>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is.
>>>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but it's
>>>>> not
>>>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to.
>>>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is
>>>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track
>>>>> record.
>>>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but
>>>>> perhaps it
>>>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if we
>>>>> stay.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of
>>>>> signing
>>>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are.  It's illegal for
>>>>> them to
>>>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we never
>>>>> had a
>>>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least.  They certainly
>>>>> collected
>>>>> >> rent in accordance with it.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a lawyer
>>>>> to see
>>>>> >> the contracts?  I understand it's an extra expense, but I've
>>>>> already offered
>>>>> >> to cover that.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> >>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying
>>>>> "your new
>>>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only sketchy
>>>>> thing
>>>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Ron
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote:
>>>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant difference
>>>>> >>> > whether or
>>>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal.  If they've been legal,
>>>>> then we
>>>>> >>> > can
>>>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their
>>>>> contracts
>>>>> >>> > with
>>>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a
>>>>> lawyer for
>>>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so
>>>>> >>> > > consistently, and
>>>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them.
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its
>>>>> progressed.
>>>>> >>> > > Why
>>>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us?
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us,
>>>>> based on
>>>>> >>> > > the
>>>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. For
>>>>> >>> > > example, if
>>>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. And
>>>>> >>> > > Assentworks
>>>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave.
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and personal
>>>>> >>> > > projects.
>>>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be
>>>>> >>> > > disassembled.
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make
>>>>> plans - one
>>>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build
>>>>> everything.
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor layout,
>>>>> and let
>>>>> >>> > > it
>>>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage.
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s
>>>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk
>>>>> >>> =/z5o
>>>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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