-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Agreed. A lawyer isn't going to be able to give you any useful advice. I recommend donating the money to http://www.indiegogo.com/skullspace instead. :)
Seriously though, what do you expect to get out of it? What's the best case? We piss off the landlord and then be forced to leave after 6 months anyway. They're not going to let us stay if we complain about anything. Ron On 2012-10-25 13:31, Michael Loney wrote: > I can't stop you form doing what you wish. But in the absolute best case > scenario you are out the legal fees. > > G Mike > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Then will you let me take copies of our leases to a lawyer, to see where > > we legally stand? > > > > If you confirm today, I can do this before our Tuesday meeting and > > vote. I will, of course, pay all costs. > > > > I'm getting all sorts of mixed messages here, including from multiple > > board members. I don't know where we currently stand, so I'm guessing no > > one else does either. :( > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but > >> it isn't correct. > >> > >> - We have not waved the old lease > >> - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we > >> can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have > >> not yet recognized it as an official lease. > >> - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many > >> ideas being discussed. > >> - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding > >> discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone). > >> > >> Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term. > >>> > >>> > >>> Here is the actual chat log. (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is > >>> Ron.) > >>> > >>> > >>> [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month > >>> clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease (legal > >>> if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately > >>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be > >>> difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let them > >>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current > >>> terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick < > >>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Who said we waived our rights? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid > >>>>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause. > >>>>> > >>>>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to the > >>>>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new > >>>>> utility > >>>>> bills). > >>>>> > >>>>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the > >>>>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at appropriate > >>>>> terms. They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Siu, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary > >>>>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the > >>>>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on whether > >>>>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money > >>>>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical > >>>>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ~Justin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future contract > >>>>>> then it > >>>>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to > >>>>>> pay it > >>>>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is. > >>>>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but it's > >>>>>> not > >>>>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to. > >>>>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is > >>>>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track > >>>>>> record. > >>>>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but > >>>>>> perhaps it > >>>>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if > >>>>>> we stay. > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of > >>>>>> signing > >>>>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are. It's illegal > >>>>>> for them to > >>>>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract. > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we > >>>>>> never had a > >>>>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least. They certainly > >>>>>> collected > >>>>>> >> rent in accordance with it. > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a lawyer > >>>>>> to see > >>>>>> >> the contracts? I understand it's an extra expense, but I've > >>>>>> already offered > >>>>>> >> to cover that. > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>>>> >>> Hash: SHA1 > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying > >>>>>> "your new > >>>>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only sketchy > >>>>>> thing > >>>>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that > >>>>>> isn't > >>>>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried. > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> Ron > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote: > >>>>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant difference > >>>>>> >>> > whether or > >>>>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal. If they've been legal, > >>>>>> then we > >>>>>> >>> > can > >>>>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their > >>>>>> contracts > >>>>>> >>> > with > >>>>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all. > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a > >>>>>> lawyer for > >>>>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*. > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so > >>>>>> >>> > > consistently, and > >>>>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them. > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its > >>>>>> progressed. > >>>>>> >>> > > Why > >>>>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us? > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us, > >>>>>> based on > >>>>>> >>> > > the > >>>>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. For > >>>>>> >>> > > example, if > >>>>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. > >>>>>> And > >>>>>> >>> > > Assentworks > >>>>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave. > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and personal > >>>>>> >>> > > projects. > >>>>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be > >>>>>> >>> > > disassembled. > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make > >>>>>> plans - one > >>>>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build > >>>>>> everything. > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor layout, > >>>>>> and let > >>>>>> >>> > > it > >>>>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage. > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > > > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>>> >>> > Help: > >>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>>> >>> > Archive: > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s > >>>>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk > >>>>>> >>> =/z5o > >>>>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>>> >>> Help: > >>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>>> >>> Archive: > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>>> >> Archive: > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>>> > Archive: > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlCJhiEACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/Ti7ACgzAUn/3IzWOXgj79Z+79MtfS3 0WMAoJ/6FT0tYZHJtvUcViyBhl3tJ3Cv =9yc0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
