The plan at the moment is to come to an agreement with Assentworks as landlord. That plan might involve us making a graceful exit (in a smooth manner that doesn't suddenly leave AW in a lurch), or sticking around for a while. If we come to agreeable terms, skullspace can safely waive the old lease and all parties will hopefully be happy. We have not Doe this yet, but we're currently making progress.
In the exceptionally unlikely event that things go poorly with AW, we will be left with little choice but to cling to the old lease to survive and have time to prepare to move. I can't stop you from taking the lease to a lawyer, but I recommend saving your money unless things start to go horribly wrong. That is where we stand at this precise moment. This can change at any time. The situation is extremely fluid. We will keep the membership informed the best we can, but we do have day jobs. Rest assured, we know where we stand and we have a plan. On Oct 25, 2012 1:20 PM, "Roswyne" <[email protected]> wrote: > Then will you let me take copies of our leases to a lawyer, to see where > we legally stand? > > If you confirm today, I can do this before our Tuesday meeting and > vote. I will, of course, pay all costs. > > I'm getting all sorts of mixed messages here, including from multiple > board members. I don't know where we currently stand, so I'm guessing no > one else does either. :( > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but >> it isn't correct. >> >> - We have not waved the old lease >> - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that we >> can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have >> not yet recognized it as an official lease. >> - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many >> ideas being discussed. >> - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding >> discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone). >> >> Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet. >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term. >>> >>> >>> Here is the actual chat log. (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is >>> Ron.) >>> >>> >>> [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month >>> clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease (legal >>> if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately >>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would be >>> difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let them >>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current >>> terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Who said we waived our rights? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid >>>>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause. >>>>> >>>>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to the >>>>> new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new >>>>> utility >>>>> bills). >>>>> >>>>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the >>>>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at appropriate >>>>> terms. They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, costs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Siu, >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary >>>>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the >>>>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on whether >>>>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money >>>>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical >>>>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~Justin >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future contract >>>>>> then it >>>>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to >>>>>> pay it >>>>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is. >>>>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but it's >>>>>> not >>>>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to. >>>>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is >>>>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track >>>>>> record. >>>>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but >>>>>> perhaps it >>>>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if >>>>>> we stay. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of >>>>>> signing >>>>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are. It's illegal >>>>>> for them to >>>>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we >>>>>> never had a >>>>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least. They certainly >>>>>> collected >>>>>> >> rent in accordance with it. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a lawyer >>>>>> to see >>>>>> >> the contracts? I understand it's an extra expense, but I've >>>>>> already offered >>>>>> >> to cover that. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>> >>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying >>>>>> "your new >>>>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only sketchy >>>>>> thing >>>>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that >>>>>> isn't >>>>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Ron >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote: >>>>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant difference >>>>>> >>> > whether or >>>>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal. If they've been legal, >>>>>> then we >>>>>> >>> > can >>>>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their >>>>>> contracts >>>>>> >>> > with >>>>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all. >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a >>>>>> lawyer for >>>>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*. >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so >>>>>> >>> > > consistently, and >>>>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them. >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its >>>>>> progressed. >>>>>> >>> > > Why >>>>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us? >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us, >>>>>> based on >>>>>> >>> > > the >>>>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. For >>>>>> >>> > > example, if >>>>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. >>>>>> And >>>>>> >>> > > Assentworks >>>>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave. >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and personal >>>>>> >>> > > projects. >>>>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be >>>>>> >>> > > disassembled. >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make >>>>>> plans - one >>>>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build >>>>>> everything. >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor layout, >>>>>> and let >>>>>> >>> > > it >>>>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage. >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> >>> > Help: >>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> >>> > Archive: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s >>>>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk >>>>>> >>> =/z5o >>>>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> >>> Help: >>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> >>> Archive: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> >> Archive: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> > Archive: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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