I would personally like to get a lawyer's opinion. However, I don't have copies of the leases, which I would need to get from the board.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > The plan at the moment is to come to an agreement with Assentworks as > landlord. That plan might involve us making a graceful exit (in a smooth > manner that doesn't suddenly leave AW in a lurch), or sticking around for a > while. If we come to agreeable terms, skullspace can safely waive the old > lease and all parties will hopefully be happy. We have not Doe this yet, > but we're currently making progress. > > In the exceptionally unlikely event that things go poorly with AW, we will > be left with little choice but to cling to the old lease to survive and > have time to prepare to move. > > I can't stop you from taking the lease to a lawyer, but I recommend saving > your money unless things start to go horribly wrong. > > That is where we stand at this precise moment. This can change at any > time. The situation is extremely fluid. We will keep the membership > informed the best we can, but we do have day jobs. Rest assured, we know > where we stand and we have a plan. > On Oct 25, 2012 1:20 PM, "Roswyne" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Then will you let me take copies of our leases to a lawyer, to see where >> we legally stand? >> >> If you confirm today, I can do this before our Tuesday meeting and >> vote. I will, of course, pay all costs. >> >> I'm getting all sorts of mixed messages here, including from multiple >> board members. I don't know where we currently stand, so I'm guessing no >> one else does either. :( >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry, and I understand that you're just relaying what Ron said, but >>> it isn't correct. >>> >>> - We have not waved the old lease >>> - We did not 'agree' to let them sign the document. Our stance is that >>> we can't stop them from signing the document with the landlord, but we have >>> not yet recognized it as an official lease. >>> - AW has not agreed to letting us stay on 6 months, it's one of many >>> ideas being discussed. >>> - Anything not coming directly from Courtney or Myself regarding >>> discussions with AW is just rumor (or in this case, a game of telephone). >>> >>> Ron's explanation is a possible outcome, but it has not happened yet. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I called it "waiving", as I believe that is the correct legal term. >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is the actual chat log. (For those who don't know, iago-x86 is >>>> Ron.) >>>> >>>> >>>> [10:11] <+iago-x86> They effectively said they'll invoke the 6 month >>>> clause, but gave us the option to agree to disregard the new lease (legal >>>> if we both consent) and sign a new one immediately >>>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> AssentWorks wanted to sign right away - it would >>>> be difficult for them to deal with the uncertainty, so we agreed to let >>>> them >>>> [10:12] <+iago-x86> Then AW gave us the option to stay on our current >>>> terms for 6 months (with them) or sign a new one and pay our share >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Courtney Lofchick < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Who said we waived our rights? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Apparently we have *waived* our right to our existing lease to avoid >>>>>> forcing the landlord to invoke the six month clause. >>>>>> >>>>>> AssentWorks will (but has not yet) signed a new lease, agreeing to >>>>>> the new terms (retroactively paying electrical bills and paying all new >>>>>> utility bills). >>>>>> >>>>>> We could then sublease from AW for six months under the terms of the >>>>>> original lease, or for the remainder of their new lease at appropriate >>>>>> terms. They would presumably want to pass on their new, higher, costs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Siu, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate your concern and volunteering to cover some preliminary >>>>>>> legal costs. I think I need to stress again that we're beyond the >>>>>>> details of the legality of the lease and we're now focused on whether >>>>>>> we stay and reduce our footprint, or we find a new space. Your money >>>>>>> would be much better spent on helping out with upcoming electrical >>>>>>> costs - no matter where we end up there will be these costs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~Justin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25 October 2012 09:34, Courtney Lofchick <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > If they want of request AW pay back electrical in a future >>>>>>> contract then it >>>>>>> > is not illegal. Especially if they agree to it. We don't have to >>>>>>> pay it >>>>>>> > unless we stay. The landlord is not imposing that on us, AW is. >>>>>>> > Claiming we don't have a lease is different. We have one, but it's >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> > relevant. They can give us 6 months if they want to. >>>>>>> > You don't need to get a lawyer to determine if the landlord is >>>>>>> > untrustworthy. A quick look at court records will show their track >>>>>>> record. >>>>>>> > That being said if you want to pay for a lawyer please do so but >>>>>>> perhaps it >>>>>>> > would be better put to helping us come to an agreement with AW if >>>>>>> we stay. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> You can't change a contract once it's signed - the whole point of >>>>>>> signing >>>>>>> >> it is to confirm and finalize what the terms are. It's illegal >>>>>>> for them to >>>>>>> >> insist on anything that wasn't covered in the contract. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> As far as I can tell, they're sticking to their story that we >>>>>>> never had a >>>>>>> >> contract, which is interesting to say the least. They certainly >>>>>>> collected >>>>>>> >> rent in accordance with it. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Is there a particular reason that the board doesn't want a lawyer >>>>>>> to see >>>>>>> >> the contracts? I understand it's an extra expense, but I've >>>>>>> already offered >>>>>>> >> to cover that. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ron <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>> >>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> They're not illegal. There's nothing stopping them from saying >>>>>>> "your new >>>>>>> >>> lease requires you to pay us $6000 immediately". The only >>>>>>> sketchy thing >>>>>>> >>> is signing a second lease while the first is in effect, but that >>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>> >>> harming us in any way so I'm not worried. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Ron >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On 2012-10-25 09:12, Roswyne wrote: >>>>>>> >>> > To follow up on this - I think it makes a significant >>>>>>> difference >>>>>>> >>> > whether or >>>>>>> >>> > not their actions have been illegal. If they've been legal, >>>>>>> then we >>>>>>> >>> > can >>>>>>> >>> > continue to deal with them... but if they've violated their >>>>>>> contracts >>>>>>> >>> > with >>>>>>> >>> > us, then we can't trust them at all. >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > If I can get copies of our two leases, I'll take them to a >>>>>>> lawyer for >>>>>>> >>> > review *at my own expense*. >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > > My experience says that people who behave unfairly do so >>>>>>> >>> > > consistently, and >>>>>>> >>> > > escalate until you stop giving in to them. >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > We all know how this has continuously gotten worse as its >>>>>>> progressed. >>>>>>> >>> > > Why >>>>>>> >>> > > give them another chance to shock us? >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > Moving time and costs will depend on what we take with us, >>>>>>> based on >>>>>>> >>> > > the >>>>>>> >>> > > size of the new place and what people consider important. For >>>>>>> >>> > > example, if >>>>>>> >>> > > we don't have room for six couches, we won't take them all. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> >>> > > Assentworks >>>>>>> >>> > > might be happy to inheirit the ones we leave. >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > Similarly, people can take back any "lent" items and personal >>>>>>> >>> > > projects. >>>>>>> >>> > > Tables can be folded down, and benches and shelves can be >>>>>>> >>> > > disassembled. >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > We shouldn't over plan the new location. Its easy to make >>>>>>> plans - one >>>>>>> >>> > > person can do that alone. But it takes a team to build >>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > We'll do better to embrace a flexible, adaptive floor >>>>>>> layout, and let >>>>>>> >>> > > it >>>>>>> >>> > > grow based on need/usage. >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> > > >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> >>> > Help: >>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> >>> > Archive: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>> >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAlCJSWwACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QnHQCfa1Wt0Q/u8EY8Iv0ea2AhlF+s >>>>>>> >>> EssAnA3pOsfSM2dxn3cSbjKY6M00aVIk >>>>>>> >>> =/z5o >>>>>>> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> >>> Help: >>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> >>> Archive: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> >> Help: >>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> >> Archive: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> > Archive: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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