All Concerned: Folks let's keep it under control, this problem will not be solved at email speed. Even Hamas and Israel have a cease fire in place. It's complicated with the door as was discussed at the Tuesday meeting and on this list. The resources that are working on a solution are working to the best of their ability. Is it frustrating, of course it is and moving fast into a new space will have some unintended consequences. This is one of them, so I am asking everyone to relax and back the fuck off - you have 3 years to enjoy the space, I know it's shiny and I know it's new all will be ok soon, you have my assurance.
I would like to ask for a cease fire in place on this topic until the next meeting when we will get an update on progress. Pushing folks that are already working hard is not acceptable. Perhaps it will happen sooner, I don't know and that's ok were dealing with people who are volunteering their time and everyone's contribution is valued. All are advised to not violate the ceasefire. There may be unintended consequences to cease fire violations, damage to reputation things that even modern medicine can not cure. Govern yourself accordingly, for the good of the club and the sanity of everyone. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave Curry Sent: November-21-12 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Fwd: Noble Locksmith Quote\ I will try to keep this civil, but reading this thread has me upset, and your response here is not helping. Set the lockbox up at Adelaide or something. Or hide it in a cookie jar. I don't fucking care. Right now we have a member base of over 40 people and a total of what, 5 people who have 24/7 access? This probably wouldn't be such a sore point if not for the repeated "It'll be fine, don't worry!". If you said at the start you were expecting a transition period before everyone would have full access again, fine. If you had said "It'll be at least 2 or 3 weeks before we can get everyone full access." then fine. But you went ahead with a huge move (Which I'm guilty of assisting in) putting our assets in the new location before you could even _begin_ to offer a timeframe for people to expect access! If people want to throw money in to expedite this, stop wasting all of our time looking for the cheap/perfect solution and _get this done_. And before you come back with "If you're so smart/gung ho/whatever why don't you come back with a solution?", I will fucking do it. I will step up. On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:07:36PM -0600, Justin Lacko wrote: > Please tell me about this mythical key that people want copies of. > We aren't allowed to make keys of the front door beyond the few we've made > - landlord's rule. That door is unlocked M-F 9-5. We do not possess a key > for the upstairs suite door which is why we're looking into getting it > replaced. So please tell me about the magical key that will open the > doors. > </sarcasm> > > On 21 November 2012 22:00, Dave Curry <[email protected]> wrote: > > I don't recall Colin saying that we shouldn't do temporary keys for > people. If people want to pay the money for keys that are going to be > useless once the changeover is done, why are we not doing this? It's not > SkullSpace funds that we're talking about, it's whatever given member > wants to shell out the money for it. If it's not an inconvenience for a > key-bearer to come out at any hour to let people in, why is it one to > arrange to bring them to get a key cut? > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 03:00:38PM -0600, Jay Smith wrote: > > A A "It's funny how the people with keys are suggesting everyone else > should > > A A just be patient." > > > > A A I don't appreciate the ad hominem attack that you're implying. > > > > A A Ask, don't tell, the people doing the work how you might be able > to help. > > A A They've been working on this for the last while and know what > needs to be > > A A done. They also know what can't and shouldn't be done. > > > > A A On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Roswyne <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > A A A It's funny how the people with keys are suggesting everyone > else should > > A A A just be patient. > > > > A A A The rest of us who would prefer not to be locked out have made > a viable > > A A A suggestion and clearly indicated we will pay the expense of it > > A A A ourselves. A It is purely opt-in, and won't cost anyone a > penny if they > > A A A choose not to participate in it. > > > > A A A So why are we being told we shouldn't/can't implement it? > A Isn't the > > A A A whole point of a do-ocracy that if you care enough about > something, you > > A A A can and should do (and fund) it yourself? > > > > > > > > A A A In case I haven't made myself clear, I deeply appreciate all > the work > > A A A that Justin and Colin and Rich and others have put into > getting the new > > A A A place setup. A My issue is with how my concerns are being > denigrated and > > A A A offers to help in the ways I can are sneered at and deemed > unnecessary. > > > > > > A A A On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Justin Lacko > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A A A A Jeez, people need to be more patient. We're getting free > work from a > > A A A A talented guy to get this all set up. WE WILL GET IT FIGURED > OUT. > > A A A A PLEASE EXCUSE THE DOWNTIME/MODIFIED HOURS! > > A A A A I measured the door yesterday, Colin is measuring the old > space doors > > A A A A tonight I think... we'll get this figured out! > > > > A A A A On 21 November 2012 14:06, Ian E. Trump > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A A A A A This is a good email with wise words. > > > > > > > > A A A A A From: [email protected] > > A A A A A [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Jay Smith > > A A A A A Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 14:04 > > > > A A A A A To: [email protected] > > A A A A A Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Fwd: Noble Locksmith > Quote > > > > > > > > A A A A A Thanks Richard! And thank you Colin for all the work > you've put in > > A A A A A at this space and the last one. I'm personally impressed > by the > > A A A A A speed at which Colin's set things up and appreciate the > work he's > > A A A A A put in. (I still have no idea how he managed to neatly > install those > > A A A A A wires while seemingly leaving the door-frame untouched) > > > > A A A A A In the meantime, just a gentle reminder that if you want > the access > > A A A A A issue to be resolved quicker, you're best approach is to > take Colin > > A A A A A up on the request for help that he made at the last > meeting. > > > > A A A A A That said, going by some of the comments I've heard > off-list and on > > A A A A A this mailing list, I think some people are under the > impression that > > A A A A A Colin (and everybody else working on the doors) is > SkullSpace's > > A A A A A bitch. This is not the case. He's doing this for no > other reason > > A A A A A than because he wants to. Respect his work as such. > > > > A A A A A We are a community of people who actually like doing > things (a > > A A A A A do-ocracy if you will). People who like doing things > often don't > > A A A A A appreciate people who just criticize their work and ask > them to do > > A A A A A more things. We have outright lost good people on > account of this > > A A A A A behavior and have de-motivated several others. > > > > A A A A A Please, be mindful of how you treat the people doing > things to help > > A A A A A the space. I know all of us, myself included, can find > ways to do > > A A A A A better. > > > > A A A A A Do: > > A A A A A - Ask how you can help > > A A A A A - Ask to do it yourself > > A A A A A - Give constructive advice and suggestions > > A A A A A - Be thankful for the people actively working to make > the space > > A A A A A better > > > > A A A A A Don't: > > A A A A A - Bitch > > A A A A A - Insult > > A A A A A - Give others more work to do > > A A A A A - Micromanage the people actively working to make the > space better > > > > A A A A A No member has the right to boss around other members. > Even us > > A A A A A directors try to avoid such behavior whenever possible. > > > > > > > > A A A A A On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Roswyne > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A A A A A I will happy pay to have my own key cut and whatever > surcharge you > > A A A A A deem necessary for the "inconvenience". > > > > > > > > A A A A A I find being locked out to be an inconvenience. A If > Colin can just > > A A A A A get the fobs working on the outside door, I don't see > what the issue > > A A A A A is with cutting keys that will automatically expire > if/when the > > A A A A A interior lock gets changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > A A A A A On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Ron > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A A A A A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > A A A A A Hash: SHA1 > > > > A A A A A As a last option, let's look at that. As a first option, > let's look > > A A A A A at > > A A A A A something easier/better. :) > > > > A A A A A Ron > > > > A A A A A On 2012-11-21 12:45, Michael Kozakewich wrote: > > A A A A A > We'd be paying, so that answers that. Take a last-call > order now > > A A A A A and at Tuesday's meeting, then get that many made. Not > every member > > A A A A A > comes often enough to need a key, so those who > specifically need > > A A A A A it (those who always come outside of Tuesdays, Fridays, > and > > A A A A A > Hackathons) enough to want to pay a few dollars for > rental can buy > > A A A A A theirs. (Make it clear that we don't own our key.) > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > -----Original Message----- > > A A A A A > From: Ron > > A A A A A > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:15 PM > > A A A A A > To: [email protected] > > A A A A A > Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Fwd: Noble Locksmith > Quote > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > A A A A A > Hash: SHA1 > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > When I had the directors' keys cut, they were $3 each. > Other > > A A A A A places > > A A A A A > might be cheaper. According to a list I just saw, we > have 42 > > A A A A A members, > > A A A A A > which means $126 to cut keys for everybody. Our budget > for this is > > A A A A A > currently about $0. I paid out of my own pocket for > the directors' > > A A A A A keys > > A A A A A > (10 keys =~ $35 after tax). > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > We could do it on-demand, if we needed to, but that's > a lot of > > A A A A A extra > > A A A A A > work for somebody, plus getting the keys back after - > at Adelaide, > > A A A A A we > > A A A A A > never did get everybody's keys back, which proves that > people > > A A A A A can't be > > A A A A A > trusted with keys (or to maintain lists of who has > keys :) ). > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > I'd rather go with the easier and cheaper solutions > first, if > > A A A A A possible, > > A A A A A > before getting more complicated/expensive. > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > Ron > > A A A A A > > > A A A A A > On 2012-11-21 12:06, Michael Kozakewich wrote: > > A A A A A > > How much would it cost to cut a key, really? I'd > personally pay > > A A A A A a few dollars to rent a newly-cut key until a fob system > is put in > > A A A A A > > place. > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > -----Original Message----- > > A A A A A > > From: Ron > > A A A A A > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:47 AM > > A A A A A > > To: [email protected] > > A A A A A > > Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Fwd: Noble > Locksmith Quote > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > A A A A A > > Hash: SHA1 > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > As a stopgat measure, we have a few choices: > > A A A A A > > - - Find a door that will fit and replace our door > with it > > A A A A A > > - - Cut keys for the internal door, get the fob > hooked up to the > > A A A A A external > > A A A A A > > - - Put a lockbox inside and put a key in the > lockbox > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > I don't know which is the most possible/cheap, but > let's wait > > A A A A A till > > A A A A A > > Justin measures the sksp1 doors before we make any > decisions. > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > Ron > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > On 2012-11-21 11:37, Roswyne wrote: > > A A A A A > > > The "decision" at the meeting was to see if we > could simply > > A A A A A replace the > > A A A A A > > > door instead of installing a lock guard. A Justin > was going to > > A A A A A see if any of > > A A A A A > > > the doors we installed at SkSp1 would work, or if > he could > > A A A A A find one of the > > A A A A A > > > correct size at the Re-Store. > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > If that didn't work out, then we would probably, > painfully, > > A A A A A have to get the > > A A A A A > > > locksmith to do the work. > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > However, with a 3-4 week lead time for the > locksmith to order > > A A A A A the plate, > > A A A A A > > > that will push us far past the beginning of > December for us to > > A A A A A have a > > A A A A A > > > working interior door. > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > Honestly, I think it's time to start cutting keys > so we can > > A A A A A use the > > A A A A A > > > existing door as is. A It'll be cheaper than > having the work > > A A A A A professionally > > A A A A A > > > done on the door, and it can be done much more > quickly, so we > > A A A A A can continue > > A A A A A > > > to search for a replacement door at our leisure. > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:17 AM, R Rodd > > A A A A A <[email protected]> wrote: > > A A A A A > > > > > A A A A A > > > > A Attached is the quote I received from Noble > after their > > A A A A A visit > > A A A A A > > > > yesterday. A I'm not sure if it was discussed at > the meeting > > A A A A A last night butI assume it > > A A A A A > > > > was mentioned so I'm not providing the context > and > > A A A A A background that Colin > > A A A A A > > > > can speak to if there are any questions. > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Action items at this point, I think, would be > input from > > A A A A A members and a Go > > A A A A A > > > > | No-Go from exec. A Due to the older design and > construction > > A A A A A of the door necessitating > > A A A A A > > > > a unique handset the quote is about 60% higher > than I was > > A A A A A expecting > > A A A A A > > > > initially, before meeting with the locksmith > yesterday. > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > If it is a Go from exec, probably someone with a > key should > > A A A A A schedule a > > A A A A A > > > > time for the work. > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > A - Richard > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > A ** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > *From:* Frank Senden > [mailto:[email protected]] > > A A A A A > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 2012 November 21 7:50 > > A A A A A > > > > *To:* [email protected] > > A A A A A > > > > *Subject:* Noble Locksmith Quote**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > ** ** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Hi Richard,**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Please see Quote 12-619.**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > ** ** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Sincerely,**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Frank Senden**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > Noble Locksmith Ltd.**** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > ** ** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > ** ** > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > _______________________________________________ > > A A A A A > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > A A A A A > > > > Help: > > A A A A > A http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > A A A A A > > > > Archive: > > A A A A > A https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > A A A A A > > > > > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > > _______________________________________________ > > A A A A A > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > A A A A A > > > Help: > > A A A A > A http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > A A A A A > > > Archive: > > A A A A > A https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > A A A A A > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > > iEYEARECAAYFAlCtE6MACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/STGQCfcsNkldgKS2D1T6Wz4jdtnT3M > > A A A A A > > uokAoLENKwiV0vW5kfon8d5TLMAL9akQ > > A A A A A > > =Ud6m > > A A A A A > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > A A A A A > > _______________________________________________ > > A A A A A > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > A A A A A > > Help: > > A A A A > A http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > A A A A A > > Archive: > > A A A A > A https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > A A A A A > > > > A A A A A > > _______________________________________________ > > A A A A A > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > A A A A A > > Help: > > A A A A > 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