Hi Tim, On Fri, 29 May 2015 16:50:30 +1000 Timothy Rice <[email protected]> wrote:
> > People does use text processors, spreadsheets and Dropbox and Co., > > and is natural for them to wonder why they should replace them and > > learn yet another tool. > > This is just it. The "should" part. If I was trying to push something > on people, then the burden would be on me to justify my position to > them. Since I don't think there is a "should" about which tool to > use, There is, sometimes is the right tool (or family of tools) for doing something. So yes, for version controlling text files they *should* be using git (or hg or whatever, but *no* Dropbox). This is not about git vs hg, case in which I'd totally agree with you; it is about the difference between an online file repository vs version control systems, and showing them the point if they don't get it by themselves along the tutorials. > and I don't have an agenda for them to switch from Dropbox to > Git, then why would it concern me if they don't immediately jump on > the Git bandwagon? > > If they need to or want to know it, I'm here to help. If they don't, > then I'm sure they've got better things to do than hang around in > workshops for things that don't interest them. > > > > Not having participated in any SCW yes (this will be solved in a few > > weeks :-), I have given a couple of introductory git talks to people > > really interested in the subject, and the Dropbox question always > > arised, and I think that we should be ready to give a 30 sec., basic > > answer to this. We use git instead of dropbox, don't we? so, why? > > Which is the essential difference? I'm sure this kind of comments > > always arises, if not in class, in the breaks and in post-workshop > > conversations. > > I've given several Git talks and have attended several SWC bootcamps > as a helper. I've never had the Dropbox question. mmm I did, may be it depends on the audience. > Perhaps I should also add that I've never been rude to students, > despite what my cantankerous attitude in email might suggest ;-) Hehe, I guessed so! ;-) > > You should know more than you teach, and knowing the tools > > available, at least knowing that they exist and the rough > > differences between them, I believe is part of it. I do not use > > Word except for administrative paperwok, but I know when and why I > > should use LaTeX. > > Sorry, but I'm not going to invest time in learning tools that I > don't have a use for, just in case someone wants to know how my > workflow is different to theirs on some arbitrary point. > > If someone wants me to compare, say, Debian and Arch Linux, or C and > C++, I can help them, because I've got experience with these; > furthermore, such comparisons might be appropriate in workshops > respectively on installing Linux or programming high performance > applications. It not the same at all comparing Debian vs Arch and C vs C++ against comparing git vs Dropbox. The later would be more like C vs bash. > But if someone comes to a Git workshops wondering how > it's different to Dropbox, well, they'll learn that as soon as they > try Git for more than a few minutes, or as soon as they try to use > Dropbox for writing software. Yes, I'm sure *most* will, but some perhaps not. Specially if they've *never* heard about version control systems and they're totally new to the concept. > For me, knowing more than I teach means knowing things about Git, > bash, etc that don't get taught in the novice bootcamps. Knowing > quite a lot about Git and bash is what gives me the authority to > teach these topics, not knowing whatever is currently passing for > popular software amongst non-computational people. You are right in the sense of knowing more of *what* you teach, and I of course agree. But I'm talking also about the environment in which the students are moving. Their "working context" so to say. And for me this also includes having a rough idea of the tools they are using. And I do know more than one researcher around using Dropbox for sharing their code, and I know *most* of them do not use any VCS at all. That's why I'm hosting a SC Workshop here ;-) But this may be influenced in part by my job of scientific computing and HPC support (I think we both are in a similar game :-), in which when someone comes in with a support request, I first ask them "the three questions": what do you want to achieve (the problem to solve), how are you doing it, or plan to do it (the strategy and the tools), and what is the problem you're facing with it (the question). Notice the "question" being the last thing I ask. Oh well, this all could also be because of my particular way of thinking, hehe :-)) BTW, this is becoming quite off-topic. I think rm, mv and cp should go first X-D. Inigo > > > ~ Tim _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org
