Dear All, I think the matter of installing some environment in preparation of a workshop is important because --- it's not / should not be an installation for the workshop only. Ideally, the installation should leave participants with an environment they can continue to use, keep updated, and develop (by installing whatever packages relevant to their scientific work).
If participants return from their workshop with some package with some package installed on their laptop but no adequate idea of how to turn that into a maintainable environment for doing their research, and / or no clear idea where to find such an idea within their department, that creates a risk not only for the package to become some fallow piece of software, but also for limiting the workshop's impact in general. In short, if participants don't continue to use their SWC skills, they're at risk of losing them. We can't expect that SWC workshops will train every participant to bring their laptop into shape for their scientific computing and keep it there. One thing that may be possible, though, is to ask participants to think of where they'll use what they learn at the workshop, and who's going to provide the environment / resource, and to encourage them to get in touch with those folks back at their institution. At our institute, that would be me, and I'd be very happy to be approached in this way. Another idea might be to encourage participants to arrange for exploring / developing their computing environments together after the workshop... in the spirit that contacts to others are among the most valuable things to take home... Best regards, Jan On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 10:10:05AM +0100, Erik Bray wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Matt Davis <[email protected]> wrote: > > The idea of an installation lesson sounds good to me. > > Sounds good to me too. There's a lot of useful material I could think > of going into something like that, alone, before even getting to usage > of the shell (I talk a lot about similar stuff usually at the start of > a workshop, but it's usually off the cuff). > > However, that wouldn't address the problem of the OP that either a > page on the workshop template, or even a separate lesson might be hard > to find at first glance (if I understand correctly)? It might be nice > to have a page of common tools and installation instructions for them > on the main SWC website somewhere, that's easy to find. > > The problem with this, I think, is that there are dozens of different > tools one might want to teach at different workshops to different > audiences, and most of them wouldn't apply to most people. Such a > page would have to be well organized, so that more common tools and > software are toward the top, and maybe categorized sensibly. Within > each category I could envision a table listing the name of a tool, and > a description of what it is and what it's used for, and who its > audience is. This could then expand out, accordion style, with > installation instructions for different platforms. > > Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself though--just a thought. > > Erik > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:28 PM Darya Vanichkina <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> A separate install lesson, because the lessons are already rather > >> content-heavy, and searching within them for install instructions to email > >> to students to have a go before coming in is confusing. > >> > >> > >> On 18 February 2016 at 11:16:34, Moreau, John (UMKC-Student) > >> ([email protected]) wrote: > >> > Matt et al: > >> > Perhaps this is the crux of the problem. We no longer have installation > >> > instructions > >> > outside of the workshop pages. More experienced instructors may know to > >> > check the workshop > >> > template on GitHub. However, for newer instructors, potential workshop > >> > hosts, and > >> > drive-by site visitors, there???s no clear directions. > >> > Thinking about the problem from the perspective of a novice learner, > >> > their first instinct > >> > will be to check the website. After coming up short, some people will > >> > become frustrated > >> > and abandon the search. Here???s where an expert might say ???Why > >> > didn???t you > >> > just* google > >> > for {program needed}???? Because the novice learner lacks the mental > >> > models of an expert, > >> > they may not know what search terms to use. The Shell lessons suffer > >> > from this problem > >> > more than most: > >> > > >> > ?? Nowhere on the lesson landing page > >> > (http://swcarpentry.github.io/shell-novice/) > >> > do we mention the term ???Bash??? > >> > > >> > ?? The ???Introducing the Shell??? page > >> > (http://swcarpentry.github.io/shell-novice/00-intro.html) > >> > does not use the term ???Bash??? until the seventh paragraph > >> > > >> > ?? The intro page does not directly tell a novice learner that the > >> > standard Git for Windows > >> > installation includes Bash. > >> > > >> > ?? The intro page does mention that the Bash shell is the default shell > >> > on many modern UNIX > >> > implementations. A novice learner may not know that Mac OS now uses a > >> > UNIX engine and uses > >> > Bash for its command line terminal. They also may not know how to access > >> > the terminal. > >> > > >> > ?? If a Linux user doesn???t know about the Unix command line, I really > >> > want to ask them how > >> > they got Linux on their machine in the first place. > >> > > >> > For these reasons, I suggest that we should add installation > >> > instructions to either > >> > the lesson pages or as a separate ???lesson???. Before Greg (or anyone > >> > else) > >> > says it, yes, > >> > I know ???Pull requests are always welcome???. Let me ask the community - > >> > Would you rather > >> > have: > >> > A separate install ???lesson??? and links from the other lessons to that > >> > install page > >> > -OR- > >> > Installation information within each separate lesson? > >> > > >> > John Moreau > >> > * http://swcarpentry.github.io/instructor-training/05-expertise.html > >> > > >> > From: Discuss [mailto:[email protected]] On > >> > Behalf > >> > Of Matt Davis > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 5:05 PM > >> > To: Markus Mueller ; [email protected] > >> > Subject: Re: [Discuss] installation instructions > >> > > >> > Hi Markus, > >> > > >> > Our workshop webpages have software installation instructions. We used > >> > to have those > >> > on software-carpentry.org, but I couldn't find > >> > them so here's the website of an upcoming workshop: > >> > https://joshwaterfall.github.io/2016-02-16-NIH/ > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Matt > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:53 PM Markus Mueller > > >> > wrote: > >> > Dear listers, > >> > > >> > I am a new instructor (or soon to be one) and started having a closer > >> > look at the software > >> > carpentry lesson material. I first had a look at the instructor guide > >> > (http://swcarpentry.github.io/shell-novice/instructors.html) > >> > and only found some general tips and hints about which tools to use and > >> > how to install them > >> > (my interested would here apparently be how to get a unix shell to run > >> > on windows). > >> > > >> > I apologize if I missed something, but otherwise would be glad if > >> > somebody could point > >> > me to the installation guidelines (that the page above somehow hints > >> > at). > >> > > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > > >> > Markus > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > > >> > Please consider the environment before printing this email > >> > Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is > >> > confidential. If > >> > you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use, disclose, copy or > >> > retain it; (ii) please > >> > contact the sender immediately by reply email and then delete the > >> > emails. > >> > The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research > >> > New Zealand Limited. > >> > http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Discuss mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > > >> > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Discuss mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > > >> > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> > >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org -- +- Jan T. 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