Having taught the ecology R for DC and R gapminder and inflammation for SWC. I too like the ecology R and will most likely will use it for the next SWC workshop here at OU. However, I will most likely drop the SQL portion and instead teach the loop, logicals and functions in its place. This topics are important as an introduction for beginners. Just my 2 cents.
-mjl > On Oct 18, at 9:48 AM, Christina Koch <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Leo, > > My understanding of the SWC requirement is simply that a programming language > is taught, so some lesson swapping is okay. > > Personally, I think of a SWC workshop as conveying best practices in > programming/computing, via the tools that are being taught. For me, that > means if I used a DC programming lesson in a SWC workshop I would frame it as > "writing clean and reproducible code to analyze data" versus (in a DC > workshop) "this is a tool to do reproducible and scalable data analysis." So > it's less about which lesson I teach, as how it's framed and that it covers > certain core ideas (name your variables properly, use functions to organize > your code, etc. -- most of which are in both SWC and DC lessons). That's a > subtle distinction (and people are probably more interested in being able to > analyze their data than write clean code!) but to me, is what's important for > a workshop to be branded SWC. That's not an official stance though -- it's > my two cents. > > This is good feedback for thinking about the Software/Data Carpentry > organizations moving forward, as April alluded to. One thing that's come up > in our future SWC lesson organization is exactly this issue, of what our > stance is on lesson-swapping. I'm happy to take comments privately if anyone > wants to share more of their thoughts on this and doesn't want to add to this > thread. > > Cheers, > Christina > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Azalee Bostroem <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Hi Leo, > > Here is a link to what is required to call a workshop SWC: > https://software-carpentry.org/faq/#core-topics > <https://software-carpentry.org/faq/#core-topics> > The SWC requirements are more about topic taught by a SWC certified > instructor than specific lesson and do cover version control, automation > (shell), and Python/R. > > Azalee > > > >> On Oct 17, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Leo Browning <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hi April, >> thank you for pointing out that the core requirements for SWC are simply >> "structured programming in R or Python" on the website. >> I had always assumed that SWC requirements were more like the DC ones in >> that you had to cover SWC Git/mercurial, shell and python/R. perhaps I was >> just mistaken, but no one has ever corrected me when I have talked about >> this. >> Cheers >> L >> >> Leo Browning >> PhD Candidate with the MacDiarmid Institute >> School of Chemical and Physical Sciences, >> Victoria University of Wellington >> >> >> >> On 18 October 2017 at 03:57, April Wright <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hi Leo- >> >> I've been at workshops where the instructors have run some of the first DC >> Python lessons in conjunction with the SWC lessons, or have run the first >> couple DC and using the SWC lessons for more advanced lessons. I know I >> should keep better track of how people are using the DC Python lessons (as a >> maintainer of those lessons), but little substitutions are tricky to find >> and track. I'm not sure about wholesale swapping. I'd love to hear from >> people who are doing swapping of lesson sessions - how did it go, what did >> you do, were all your needs met - if those folks want to file issues on the >> DC Python repo. >> >> To the real question: Can you do that and call it SWC? I don't know the >> answer to that. This discussion came up a bit in some of the merger docs as >> something that needs clarification. DC has the requirement that 3 lessons in >> a lesson group be taught to be a DC workshop, SWC says "structured >> programming in R or Python". To me, teaching the DC lesson would meet that >> requirement. We go over all the things that SWC lessons typically get to >> (iteration, storing data in variables, multiple files), but the tools are >> different and the context is different. A lot of SWC workshops don't get all >> the way to debugging or command line programs, but these two lessons could >> be run after the DC lessons. Hopefully someone else can weigh in and we can >> clarify this going forward. >> >> --a >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Leo Browning <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm new to the mailing list, so please let me know if there is anything I >> should change about the way I am posting. >> >> I would like to table the idea of using DC's python for ecology module in >> place of SWC's Python module in a SWC workshop. From what I understand the >> only reason not to is that the curriculum for SWC is fixed. >> >> I have found the DC Python lesson to be more relevant and applicable to >> learners, giving them the tools that they need to be able to work with data, >> rather than spending a large amount of time on general programming concepts >> that they would pick up along the way as the SWC Python lesson does. >> >> We are considering dropping the SWC branding and running the most applicable >> lessons, but i am reluctant to do so as I view the SWC pedagogy as excellent >> in general. Rather, I would like to hear from the community as to why there >> is this restriction, to better inform our decision regarding workshop >> content. >> >> Regards >> >> Leo Browning >> PhD Candidate with the MacDiarmid Institute >> School of Chemical and Physical Sciences, >> Victoria University of Wellington >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss >> <http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss >> <http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss > <http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss> > > > > -- > Christina Koch - Research Computing Facilitator, > University of Wisconsin - Madison <http://www.wisc.edu/>, Center for High > Throughput Computing <http://chtc.cs.wisc.edu/> > Wisconsin Institute for Discovery <http://wid.wisc.edu/>; Advanced Computing > Initiative <http://aci.wisc.edu/>; ACI-REF <https://aciref.org/> > email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> // phone: (608) 316 - 4041 // > calendar: tinyurl.com/ChristinaCHTC > <http://tinyurl.com/ChristinaCHTC>_______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss
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