Having taught the ecology R for DC and R gapminder and inflammation for SWC. I 
too like the ecology R and will most likely will use it for the next SWC 
workshop here at OU. However, I will most likely drop the SQL portion and 
instead teach the loop, logicals and functions in its place. This topics are 
important as an introduction for beginners. Just my 2 cents. 

-mjl

> On Oct 18, at 9:48 AM, Christina Koch <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Leo, 
> 
> My understanding of the SWC requirement is simply that a programming language 
> is taught, so some lesson swapping is okay.  
> 
> Personally, I think of a SWC workshop as conveying best practices in 
> programming/computing, via the tools that are being taught. For me, that 
> means if I used a DC programming lesson in a SWC workshop I would frame it as 
> "writing clean and reproducible code to analyze data" versus (in a DC 
> workshop) "this is a tool to do reproducible and scalable data analysis."  So 
> it's less about which lesson I teach, as how it's framed and that it covers 
> certain core ideas (name your variables properly, use functions to organize 
> your code, etc. -- most of which are in both SWC and DC lessons).  That's a 
> subtle distinction (and people are probably more interested in being able to 
> analyze their data than write clean code!) but to me, is what's important for 
> a workshop to be branded SWC.  That's not an official stance though -- it's 
> my two cents.  
> 
> This is good feedback for thinking about the Software/Data Carpentry 
> organizations moving forward, as April alluded to.  One thing that's come up 
> in our future SWC lesson organization is exactly this issue, of what our 
> stance is on lesson-swapping.  I'm happy to take comments privately if anyone 
> wants to share more of their thoughts on this and doesn't want to add to this 
> thread.  
> 
> Cheers,
> Christina
> 
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Azalee Bostroem <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Leo,
> 
> Here is a link to what is required to call a workshop SWC: 
> https://software-carpentry.org/faq/#core-topics 
> <https://software-carpentry.org/faq/#core-topics>
> The SWC requirements are more about topic taught by a SWC certified 
> instructor than specific lesson and do cover version control, automation 
> (shell), and Python/R.
> 
> Azalee
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Leo Browning <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi April,
>> thank you for pointing out that the core requirements for SWC are simply 
>> "structured programming in R or Python" on the website. 
>> I had always assumed that SWC requirements were more like the DC ones in 
>> that you had to cover SWC Git/mercurial, shell and python/R. perhaps I was 
>> just mistaken, but no one has ever corrected me when I have talked about 
>> this. 
>> Cheers
>> L
>> 
>> Leo Browning
>> PhD Candidate with the MacDiarmid Institute 
>> School of Chemical and Physical Sciences,
>> Victoria University of Wellington
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 October 2017 at 03:57, April Wright <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Hi Leo-
>> 
>> I've been at workshops where the instructors have run some of the first DC 
>> Python lessons in conjunction with the SWC lessons, or have run the first 
>> couple DC and using the SWC lessons for more advanced lessons. I know I 
>> should keep better track of how people are using the DC Python lessons (as a 
>> maintainer of those lessons), but little substitutions are tricky to find 
>> and track. I'm not sure about wholesale swapping. I'd love to hear from 
>> people who are doing swapping of lesson sessions - how did it go, what did 
>> you do, were all your needs met - if those folks want to file issues on the 
>> DC Python repo.
>> 
>> To the real question: Can you do that and call it SWC? I don't know the 
>> answer to that. This discussion came up a bit in some of the merger docs as 
>> something that needs clarification. DC has the requirement that 3 lessons in 
>> a lesson group be taught to be a DC workshop, SWC says "structured 
>> programming in R or Python".  To me, teaching the DC lesson would meet that 
>> requirement. We go over all the things that SWC lessons typically get to 
>> (iteration, storing data in variables, multiple files), but the tools are 
>> different and the context is different. A lot of SWC workshops don't get all 
>> the way to debugging or command line programs, but these two lessons could 
>> be run after the DC lessons. Hopefully someone else can weigh in and we can 
>> clarify this going forward. 
>> 
>> --a
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Leo Browning <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm new to the mailing list, so please let me know if there is anything I 
>> should change about the way I am posting.
>> 
>> I would like to table the idea of using DC's python for ecology module in 
>> place of SWC's Python module in a SWC workshop. From what I understand the 
>> only reason not to is that the curriculum for SWC is fixed.
>> 
>> I have found the DC Python lesson to be more relevant and applicable to 
>> learners, giving them the tools that they need to be able to work with data, 
>> rather than spending a large amount of time on general programming concepts 
>> that they would pick up along the way as the SWC Python lesson does.
>> 
>> We are considering dropping the SWC branding and running the most applicable 
>> lessons, but i am reluctant to do so as I view the SWC pedagogy as excellent 
>> in general. Rather, I would like to hear from the community as to why there 
>> is this restriction, to better inform our decision regarding workshop 
>> content.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Leo Browning
>> PhD Candidate with the MacDiarmid Institute 
>> School of Chemical and Physical Sciences,
>> Victoria University of Wellington
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> -- 
> Christina Koch - Research Computing Facilitator, 
> University of Wisconsin - Madison <http://www.wisc.edu/>, Center for High 
> Throughput Computing <http://chtc.cs.wisc.edu/>
> Wisconsin Institute for Discovery <http://wid.wisc.edu/>; Advanced Computing 
> Initiative <http://aci.wisc.edu/>; ACI-REF <https://aciref.org/>
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