Creating the files isn't the problem. I can code in edlin for all
that, the problem is in the xtools interface builder. Unless you
know how ib creates connections between objects, and writes out the
nib files, there's nothing you can do about making your interface.
That's what ib was made for, and it's not vo accessible. I can
easily write c or c++ code, (and have done so) using pico, or even
text edit for all it matters. But if the program is going to look
like a mac program, and use the mac interface guidelines that
everyone is used to seeing, interface builder is necessary to
generate the interface, and make the buttons and various other gui
components that code gets attached to for making the code do things.
Sure, you can save the nib files into ascii format, and edit them
'til your hearts content, but since Apple refuses to divulge any
information whatsoever about these nib files, it's not possible to
write another program that can read and create these files. I have
had limited success in editing the nib files to change screen
attributes or element names, or what shows up on the screen, but it's
not a fun process, and besides that, it shouldn't be necessary.
Until apple makes ib accessible, or creates an alternative tool we
can use for generating gui screens, any programs vo users write are
going to be either command-line utilities, or mildly hacked versions
of existing products that require little or no interface changes.
The only method I've found that even comes close to building an
entire program from scratch that contains real interfaces is the gpc
plugin that supports the pascal language. But then, the problem
becomes the fact that it uses the carbon libs when it generates it's
code, so vo clicks don't work, you *must* use the simulated mouse
click to get anything to work. I'm thorough disgusted with apple in
this regard, and have honestly pondered more than once of going back
to my windows machines, simply because at least there, I can program
things I need w/o having to resort to unusable tools to make it happen.
On Mar 9, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Jane Jordan (Gmail) wrote:
Subethaedit lets you wrte in ...
HTML
C
C++
AppleScript
Actionscripppt
bassh
conference
css
dif or div, not sure which
Java
javascript
latex
objective c
pascal
perl
and a bunch more.
Wel it lets you create those kinds of files, so ...
anyhowm thought this nmight be useful.
Jane
If I could only remember where I got it. But do a search on google
for subethaedit and you'll probably find it. It's really amazingly
accessible
Jane
On Feb 21, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
The problem isn't with blindsoftware, it's with the development
tools available for the mac. There are several of us who have dug
into programming on the mac. Unfortunately, the tools aren't very
accessible, and making programs that are very mac-like in
appearance requires use of those tools. When apple makes XTools
accessible, then you will see more blind developers working to
bring you mac applications. The only way to do it now with 100%
accessible tools is either to use terminal applications, or to use
the pascal GPC plugin for XTools. The C and C++ programming tools
can't be used by blind developers to do anything resembling a
standard mac application. Using the pascal plugin allows creating
apps that are very mac-like, but everything needs to be hand-coded
from scratch, including buttons menus, and display areas. It's
relatively easy when compared to the tools we have to work with
when trying to write C or C++ apps, but having to code everything
from scratch isn't exactly a time-saver, not to mention the need
to dig *very* deep to find the information needed to make standard
calls that are done with a click of a mouse in the C or C++
tools. It all adds up to sighted folks doing the development, and
those generally aren't going to spend their time making games for
blind folks. I've got several projects in the works, though at
the moment, only one or two are actual games, but progress is slow
on most of them, because of the need to work around the access
limitations imposed by the inaccessible tools we have to work
with. Give it time. More folks will come to the mac, and as they
do, more developers will as well. Given enough time, folks will
find other means of developing that don't require the standard
apple tools, (like the gpc plugins) and then you'll start to see
new games and additional programs appear. Be patient, this is
still new, and those of us who are tackling it now have to learn
it largely on our own, since there's nowhere we can go to ask for
help on how to do this or that using accessible tools. The
windows community has had more than 10 years to get where it is
now, and only in the last couple years have we seen the explosion
of developers of accessible games. Give the mac more time, I have
no doubt that it will eventually meet and even surpass the pc for
it's share of accessible software including games.
On Feb 20, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Rafael Bejarano wrote:
Hello,
Has anyone on this list heard of blindsoftware.com? It is owned
and operated by a blind programmer, whose mission is to develop
Windows applications accessible by the blind. As
blindsoftware.com welcomes suggestions for future releases, I
strongly urge the subscribers to this list to contact this
company, to suggest that it may be financially prudent on their
part to develop software compatible with Tiger and VoiceOver.
I can think of three reasons why blindsoftware.com might wish to
consider doing this. First, Macvisionaries.com has a record of 91
blind computer users who have switched to Tiger and VoiceOver,
many of whom are in need of accessible applications. Second,
apple has a strong presence in education, which, because of equal-
access laws, means that blindsoftware.com has an untapped market.
Finally, critical applications compatible with Tiger and
VoiceOver--namely, spreadsheet and word processing applications--
have yet to be released.
I think that, if enough people wrote to blindsoftware.com
informing them of the need for more applications accessible to
blind Mac users, they might respond.
Cordially,
Rafael Bejarano
