Agreed. If I had shared my conclusion about the Mac and accessibility after my first 20 minutes with it I'd have told everyone it couldn't be used by the blind. But, part of that is familiarity with the OS. If I had never used Windows and sat down for the first time with Jaws and a PC I might have come to the same conclusion.

On Nov 3, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Holly Anderson wrote:

I think part of the problem is that this mis information gets spread. It's like a virus. Someone's friend has used a mac and not taken time to learn it so found it inaccessible, so they tell everyone that it's not accessible. . I think then these people who have just heard that the mac is not accessible takes it as fact without even trying to find out if it's true or not. I just think if you are supposed to be representing all blindness then you should know what you are talking about. You shouldn't just assume something. And spending 20 minutes with a product is not good enough.
Holly
On Nov 3, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Larry Wanger wrote:

I've been ignoring this thread but finally took a second to look. I really am starting not to value any opinion about accessibility expressed by AFB. When I was at the ACB convention back in July I attended a session where a guy from AFB stated that the Mac and Voiceover weren't accessible. When I confronted him after the presentation he more or less said he needed to take a look at the Mac because he really had not spent time with it. I think if you're going to claim to be a voice for the blind community that you need to do your homework before trashing a product. Just my thoughts.

On Nov 3, 2007, at 11:57 AM, Dean Hudson wrote:

I think this is a great opportunity for us to write to AFB, and educate them on the number of blind Mac users who find VoiceOver to be a fully accessible platform for OS X. Initially, I blamed the author of this article for not interviewing anybody on the Mac side of the story, but then thought hmm. THe AFB is suppose to represent the blind population in this country, and who else would he know to go to for computer access in the blind community. We can blast AFB on this list, but I think we would be most effective if we continued to pound of AFB's door, and let them know that VO is not just some Mac version of Narrator.

On Nov 2, 2007, at 8:03 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:

Hmm, interesting, this person hasn't even used a Mac with Leopard for herself, yet still comments... Go figure...

Smiles,

CQ  :)


On Nov 2, 2007, at 4:45 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

I think AFB's bias is showing...

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Deb and Cori" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 2, 2007 6:58:14 PM EDT
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Buddys-dogscoop] Fw: [TSE-Chat] Leopard article.
Reply-To: "Buddy's Dogscoop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: [TSE-Chat] Leopard article.


Feed: CNET News.com
Posted on: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:01 PM
Author: CNET News.com
Subject: Leopard looks great. But what if you can't see?



Despite new accessibility features in Leopard, people with disabilities are
still likely to choose Windows computers over Macs.


View article...
<http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9808510-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547
-1_3-0-20>


November 2, 2007 12:01 PM PDT
Leopard looks great. But what if you can't see?
Posted by
Elsa Wenzel
Leopard is Apple's best-looking operating system
yet, from its breezy Cover Flow file browsing to the starry- looking Time
Machine
backup. It's no wonder visual artists love Macs.
But how well does Leopard work for blind users?
"[Vision-impaired] people who use Macs are mostly in the category of, "My
boss says
we have to use Macs," or "I'm a teacher and that's what I'm stuck with,""
said Crista
Earl, director of Web operations at the American Foundation for the Blind. Among 10 million visually impaired people in the United States, at least 1.5
million
use computers, according to the American Foundation for the Blind. To serve
this
population, Windows machines have traditionally offered more
baked-in features
and compatibility with third-party software
and devices
than Macs.
Earl, who is blind, only uses computers running Microsoft Windows. She edits
documents
in braille and relies upon a screen-reader application to "read" text and
links aloud
in Internet Explorer and other programs.
However, to serve users such as Earl, Apple has made
17 Universal Access
enhancements within Leopard.
Leopard is the first operating system that can be installed using a braille
display.
It also supports the forms of braille used both for reading and editing.
There are
enhancements to the VoiceOver tool, which reads aloud text on a page in a
male or
female voice. Users can now move VoiceOver's preferences from one Mac to
another,
so they don't have to waste time configuring each new machine. In addition,
VoiceOver
can recognize misspelled words and jump to chunks of a Web page instead of
forcing
a user to wait while it reads one word at a time.
Earl said these changes are a step in the right direction, and she hopes to
check
them out on a friend's Mac. Mac OS X also offers
some advantages
over Windows for people with limited vision, such as the capability to
display the
screen in black and white.
"I don't mean I'd give up my Windows computer," she said. "I have work to
do. It's
gonna take a lot from the last time I saw VoiceOver."
Accessibility features from any vendor are usually more frustrating to use
than advertised,
Earl added. Part of the problem is that instead of integrating essential
tools within
their operating systems, Microsoft and Apple have left it up to third
parties to
fill in the gaps with extra, paid software.
For example, the screen readers within Windows and Mac OS X pale next to
applications
like
JAWS
or
Window-Eyes
. Earl wonders why the tech giants don't just buy one of the better tools,
then weave
it into their operating systems.
"One of the reasons things haven't gotten very far is that the companies
making screen
readers are constantly fighting the next battle," Earl said.
Blame the ever-evolving nature of Web site designs. Once screen-reader
makers figured
out how to make Adobe Acrobat accessible, for instance, Adobe Flash rendered
Web
pages mute to blind users. Now that more Flash sites work with screen
readers, the
AJAX coding of the Web 2.0 era poses new challenges.
Both the challenges in making accessibility tools and the market for them
are poised
to expand. More young people are suffering repetitive stress disorders such
as carpal
tunnel syndrome, while aging Baby Boomers grapple with diminished vision,
hearing,
and mobility.
People whose hands and arms suffer keyboard fatigue, or worse, can use
speech-to-text
software that types what they speak. For them, Windows builds in
voice-activated
dictation and commands. Leopard enables voice-activated commands only. The
rich
Dragon NaturallySpeaking
from Nuance runs only on Windows. For Macs, the equivalent
ViaVoice
(or iListen, which I haven't tested) are considered less robust.
I find each of these dictation applications awkward to use. Just spend an
hour with
one for a few laughs as it garbles your speech.
Nevertheless, hardware and software manufacturers
appear to be paying more attention
to the needs of an affluent, aging population.
"A newcomer to visual impairment tends to expect, rightly, for things to be
a whole
lot easier than they are," Earl said. "That pressure of lots of disappointed
users
might make things better for everybody."
Mike&Brent
email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Arlington, VA  22204
H;  571 312-2085
C:  732  718-9480


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6:47 PM




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