No. I haven't read anything exactly thrilling to compel me to try it. I just know Window-Eyes 6.1 is just a rock solid screen reader considering that it has to run on top of Windows.

Take Care

John Panarese

On Nov 6, 2007, at 2:25 PM, David Poehlman wrote:

gee john, have you seen jaws 9?

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Panarese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: macbook for sale


Hi James,
    The bottom line is VO is going to improve.  I really am not sure
what you exactly mean with your two points, especially considering the
reality that the Windows screen readers surely have their own set of
limitations.  In different ways, without a doubt, but I can list
several shortcomings of Window-Eyes, for example, as much as I
personally believe it to be far superior to JFW these days.
Nevertheless, as I said before, patience is indeed a virtue.


Take Care

John Panarese

On Nov 6, 2007, at 2:00 PM, James Austin wrote:

Hi John,

I do understand where you ar coming from really I do
That is why I will be keeping my MacBook and keeping up-to-date, as
well as keeping on ear on what is happening with Voice Over.

You asked what I felt disappointed me in Leopard. Honestly, it is
hard to put my finger on it, but I suspect it is at least the
following two things; firstly, I had expected that Voice Over would
be more than it has so far become. This is especially true in terms
of customization.  Secondly, as i think I eluded to in my previous
post, I knew Tigers limitations, and accepted them, in the knowledge
that Leopard would be more forthcoming. I do not feel that it has
been, as yet.

Also, as I am in the final year of my Degree, I feel that at least
for the present, Windows can offer me more of what i require, even
with its inherent difficulties.

But I will keep my ear to the ground for Mac development regardless.

Hope to speak soon

All the best

Take care

James
On 6 Nov 2007, at 18:08, John Panarese wrote:

Hi James,
  Like I said, accessibility comes down to ones personal needs and
present situation.  Thus, whatever works best for one is obviously
the way to go.  My point is I have been hearing all sorts of
complaints about what Can't be done on the Mac when there are many
work arounds or other approaches that have been offered by other
Mac users.  I am curious about what exactly Leopard did not
deliver.  I have been extremely impressed by what I have
experienced, and it is obvious that Apple has committed itself to
continued improvements to VoiceOver as time goes on.  Beyond that,
based on my years of Windows experience, I personally would find it
very hard to contemplate having to turn back to that OS for any
important uses.  Do I still utilize it for specific tasks?  Yes, I
still do and have to keep my skills sharp for the business.
Nevertheless, I honestly am at the point in which I can't stand
Windows and its quirks any longer.  Again, though, James, I am not
sitting in your proverbial chair.



Take Care

John Panarese

On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:47 PM, James Austin wrote:

Hi John,

I completely take on board everything you are saying. I really do
like the Mac, and it has certainly ben a worth-while experience. I
will be keeping my Mac, and using it for personal use, which means
keeping it up-to-date with all the latest software updates.

I fully endorse and appreciate Apple's hard work in providing a
Screen Reading solution for us, being that  a commercial company,
and that they have no obligation to do so.

I just find that for my needs at present, that Windows with its
greater access through Window Eyes/JFW better suits my needs in an
academic environment. As I said, I will be keeping my MacBook, I
am certainly not going to get rid of it, but I am getting more and
more frustrated.

I think it is partly due to the fact that I knew the limitations
of Tiger, and i readily accept them. However, Leopard promised (or
at least implied) so much more, and I personally was disappointed.
maybe I am just being selfish or overly hard to please but right
now in my present situation Leopard does not deliver on what it
promises. I will of course stay on the list and continue to
promote the use of the Mac platform by blind individuals, and who
knows, in the future, I may very well come back to the Mac.

It is  my hope that when i get my own place, to have both mac and
Windows running in my home. I know the inherent problems of
running a Windows machine, having used Windows since 1995, but the
access level is better for my personal needs at this moment in
time. I will of course miss a number of Mac features, but this is
the price I will pay for a different form of accessibility.

I will still be around on this list if i am permitted, and if
anyone would like to stay in touch, then they are more than
welcome to do so on the below contact details.


On 5 Nov 2007, at 18:27, John Panarese wrote:

In no way am I criticizing the reasons or decisions one has to
make to satisfy ones access needs.  Obviously, the situation of
Will or James or whomever is something they must address and in
the best way they feel is necessary.  I will say, however, that
seeking answers in Windows or from Windows is not exactly going
to provide those answers as well.  The thing to consider is that,
regardless of the Braille displays currently supported and the
state of word processors, this is all not a static situation.  In
other words, it will change and access will continue to improve.

On the other hand, in Windows, you still have several other
factors that will not change.  Vista is a horrible mess and in
order to get it to even function with some bit of speed and
tolerance is to turn off several features.  Even so, it's still a
resource hog and as slow as crap going uphill.  On top of that,
it is still Windows you will be dealing with, which means
instability, viruses and all of the security issues Microsoft
continues to have plaguing them.  To me, my experiences moving to
the Mac and not having to deal with that garbage has made my
investments in either Mac I have owned worth the money in gold.

Again, when the day is done, the individual has to decide for
himself or herself, but such a decision should be made with all
of the potential consequences in mind.  Leopard, as with Tiger,
will progress and I have no doubts that we will have several word
processor options and spreadsheet choices fully accessible to us
before long.  Also, Braille display support will only diversify
and expand as time goes on.  Sometimes, patience is a virtue,
folks.  Throwing away the bath water can result in tossing the
baby with it.  If you go back to Windows, be prepared for a
nightmare and the regrets that will undoubtedly occur when
something Windows related nearly provokes you to light your
system on fire as recently happened to me with my XP box a few
days ago.


Take Care

John Panarese

On Nov 5, 2007, at 12:13 PM, David Poehlman wrote:

I imagine the empower will be supported along with the rest of
the braille note family when apple can do it.  The launguages
are not that hard to implement.

On Nov 5, 2007, at 11:20 AM, william lomas wrote:

neither i need french and german braille and the m power to be
supported

On 5 Nov 2007, at 13:51, Greg Kearney wrote:

Do you need UK or UEBC braille rather than he U.S. version that
is in Leopard? Do you need to produce embossed braille as
opposed to display braille? If so contact me before you let
your mac go I can help.


Greg Kearney
535 S. Jackson St.
Casper, Wyoming 82601
307-224-4022
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Nov 4, 2007, at 11:49 PM, william lomas wrote:

hi all

as much as i love the mac i am still having to work in windows
every day for my work needs as i find microsoft word a more
powerful word processor and i need powerpoint etcetera
also i do need braille for my needs which is not provided in
leopard. so to any UK person i have
macbook core 2 duo intel
1.83 ghz
2 gigs ram
the 13.3 inch model with cd rw dvd reader
and the infovox british english and french voices installed
asking between 400 and 500 pounds
i do love the mac but leopard, as good as it is in my view,
hasn't really come that far with voice over in the last 2
years, criticize me all youw ant but there you ahve it, smile
so anyone interested please get back to me. i prefer to run a
full blown windos environment on my windows laptop i have at
home and then i ahve full braille support for the applications
i need it in like foreign languages























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