Understand that not all pros use "The latest and the greatest." Most
audio professionals in Nashville, the place where hit records are
made, don't upgrade their systems for years. They wait and wait till
they are convinced that all the bugs are worked out, then they finally
upgrade. They can't afford to deal with crashes, hickups, etc. Time is
money in a recording environment, and it just has to work. Once they
realize that the newest pro tools and O S is bug free, they may
consider moving up. So many producers and engineers in Nashville are
using outdated stuff. I know a guy using the Paris system. Remember
that one? That's about 10 years old. Anyway, he is using it because
"It works." I use Pro Tools under O S 9. I don't need anything bigger
than that because I run a tracking studio. My goal is to capture great
performances. I then give that to a mix engineer, who has all the
newest plugins and hardware. If logic is made accessible, that's
probably a platform I may consider, but for now, OS 9 works for me.
Since Alva is no longer making OutSpoken, It probably makes it fair
game to just give away the software. I will put it up on my website.
If I get a sease and desist letter, I'll take it down. But for now,
I'll offer it to you all who want to buy an older g4 and a double o 2
or mbox. It still works. You can make hit records with it. Sure I'd
like to use the latest and greatest softsynths, but there's ways
around that too. I'm experimenting with Sonar on the PC and another
app called Quick Windows Sequencer, which is also on the PC. If I want
to use the latest and greatest softsynths, I do my work there, and
import the waves into Pro Tools and continue my work. Simple as that.
We are resilient. We always find ways around things. I have a choice.
I can bitch, or I can make hit records. If you'll excuse me, I'll be
in the studio doing the latter..
On Jan 8, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Shaun Jones wrote:
Understood, however going back to Tiger. Does it work for us there?
I don't want to use older equipment that I would have to hunt for in
order to run Pro Tools. If a blind person can run it under Tiger
then let me know. No one uses Pro Tools under Leopard means that
Tiger has been out for 2.5 going on 3 years and I can't test even a
accessible beta product. Again if there is a hidden beta group then
point me in the right direction. Other than that Outspoken is out of
business and Leopard is the future. Only problem is that unless we
make change then change will never come. As a pro there is no way
you can tell me you don't want the latest and greatest. We just
can't have the latest and greatest because...Well you get the point.
On Jan 8, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Well I can speak to two of your points.
First, at least as of yesterday when I spoke to Digidesign about
another matter, i was told the pro tools does not work with leopard
for anyone right now, so that concept is not fair here.
second, I make my living or part of it using pro tools on a mac
running os 9.22 and one of the last really stable editions of the
program.
Personally I appreciate all that went about to make this happen,
and if vo worked tomorrow, would likely not change my setup as it
works is stable and does the job...for me
I emphasize for me, because as with all accessibility issues, there
is no cookie cutter computer person out their blind or otherwise.
I work as a pro radio producer, and know musicians needs are
different from mine.
so, what is okay for me may not be for you and vice versa.
Still what we do have works wonderfully, and given pro tools has
not been actually fantastic in its latest incarnations, I may be
better off etc.
Not that I will not back any effort to bring you up to speed in the
fashion you desire though.
Karen
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Shaun Jones wrote:
The path to accessibility has been very long with minimal results.
Can I as a blind Mac/Windows user pick up a copy of every version
of Pro Tools and use it as a sighted person would? Are there
scripts? What results have you presented for Tiger users? Where
was the beta test? Now that Leopard has been released, where is
the Leopard accessible version of Pro Tools? If I am re missed in
my statement or questions then please correct me. If I can't pick
up a accessible copy today, then how much longer should we wait?
What they need is a Class Action suit to bring accessibility into
the DNA of there software. Please don't tell me about barriers and
how much work has been put into making this accessible if I can't
buy a copy right now that works with the Mac running Leopard. I
like the efforts started back in 1992, but it is 2008 and a change
must come. Accessibility must be in developers mind from the
ground up. If Apple can develop a OS to run on Intel chips from
the ground up, then surely the hottest, best selling professional
audio company can do it as well. Lets be real when it comes to
what we want. It takes 2 seconds for a person to change his or her
mind and make a change. Evadentataly someone isn't talking to the
right person because after 16 years of talking and petitioning we
should be able to test this product with a download or a disc
right now. My question to you on list is, can we?
On Jan 8, 2008, at 2:59 PM, Rick Boggs wrote:
> Attention all audio enthusiasts and engineers interested in
using Pro > Tools. In light of the recent plea transmitted to
this list, I am > compelled to clarify the very important history
and ongoing advocacy > efforts on behalf of blind Pro Tools
users. Please consider this > information before taking any
action called for in the recent post to > this list.
> > > Many of you are aware of the proven track record that I
have in working > with Digidesign to make Pro Tools accessible
for blind users. In fact, > for several years, Digidesign
published a story about our successful work > in this area on
their web site. For those who don't know, in 1992 I > initiated
a dialog with the leadership at Digidesign about possible >
accessibility for blind users. By 1994, I successfully arranged
a test > at the Digidesign lab which determined that outSPOKEN,
the Mac screen > reader at the time, would NOT function with Pro
Tools. Specifically, the > Mac would not even boot properly
while both outSPOKEN and Pro Tools were > loaded on the machine.
However, through respectful, professional, > assertive
communication, I was pleased to find that Digidesign >
voluntarily made changes to a "system init" file which resolved
the > conflict and allowed blind users to access Pro Tools. The
change was > made with the launch of the next generation of the
Pro Tools software at > that time and appeared simultaneously
with other improvements to the > software.
> > Since then, I launched the "BlindProducers.com" web site and
made special > arrangements with the Digidesign sales department
and a Los Angeles > vendor to be able to sell Pro Tools systems
to blind individuals with an > appropriate package and sufficient
support to make use of Pro Tools > realistic for blind users. I
facilitated the purchase of Pro Tools for > blind clients of the
department of rehabilitation after they in fact > purchased my
own system. I even later hired blind audio engineers in my >
studio to work as Pro Tools engineers. Digidesign is well aware
of all > of these facts. Jerry Halatyn and I arranged to meet in
person with the > product development team at Digidesign and
demonstrated how blind users > interacted with Pro Tools 5.1.3
versus what the barriers are for using > Pro Tools 6.0 and
later. We have established a rapport with key > leadership at
Digidesign over the years and are working to help them > resolve
some SIGNIFICANT technical barriers to accessibility. We can >
discuss those technical details on this list at a later time.
> > In the interest of preserving the good will at Digidesign,
and with > respect for their past record of making necessary
accomodations, we ask > that all interested audio enthusiasts and
professionals allow us to > continue to pursue the existing path
toward accessibility for Pro Tools.
> > Nobody has a greater interest in finding a resolution than
myself or > Jerry since both of us earn a living exclusively by
making recordings > with or Pro Tools systems which are now quite
old and out of date.
> > Please note that rather than bombarding some clerk at
Digidesign with > separate and random expressions of frustration,
Jerry and I organized a > public display of support for a
resolution with the Pro Tools Petition at > www.ProToolsPetition.org
which did render a response from Digidesign.
> > We ask that all brainstorming on this subject be done in an
open forum > and that NO ACTION be taken without careful
consideration of the history > and progress made thus far.
> > Why not stick with what has worked folks? Ask yourselves how
much you > really know about what the technical problems are that
face Digidesign > this time around. I assure you the barriers
are significant.
> > Rick Boggs
> > > > >
