please end this thread, it has lost all value!! Respectfully
Pete -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Poehlman Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:12 AM To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS Xby theblind Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? I cannot fix your problem so why complain and yes, complain to me. when you send a message that says "it would be trivial to fix...", that is a complaint in my book because you are saying that poo on apple, they could fix this but they won't. Why not just dispense with telling us and go to apple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:48 AM Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? So who told you you couldn't do anything about it? You're a Mac user aren't you? Secondly who's complaining? I don't even use the Itunes music store. I was just talking to someone about what I thought about Itunes. So someone disagrees with you. Stop whining, you'd think I said something like God was a dog. On Aug 24, 2008, at 8:17 AM, David Poehlman wrote: > so you just want to complain to those who can't do anything about it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X > by theblind" <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:05 PM > Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? > > > Apple isn't paying me to do that. > On Aug 23, 2008, at 4:27 PM, David Poehlman wrote: > >> Apple have proven that they are listening. demonstrate how you would >> fix this easy problem. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS >> X by theblind" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 4:19 PM >> Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? >> >> >> How do you know Apple knows the problems we are having and what's >> more, how do you know they care about your problems? Aren't you >> doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, that is making some >> huge assumptions, the first one being that I don't know what I'm >> talking about when I site a problem I see and say it would be an easy >> fix for Apple to make? >> On Aug 23, 2008, at 11:05 AM, John Panarese wrote: >> >>> Don't sweat it, David. You and I have been around the block with >>> accessibility, and it's the usual reflexive reaction to claim that >>> anyone who defends Apple is doing so out of loyalty to Apple alone. >>> Of course, the reality that some of us have dealt with several >>> levels of accessibility coming over from years of Windows >>> frustrations for several years and are at the point that we have a >>> handle on how these things tend to progress is often lost. What >>> Apple can and cannot fix easily, again, is an assumption being made >>> here, as we have no idea of the what and the why involved. We all >>> have our frustrations and "complaints" over the things we can't do, >>> but there comes a point in which you say your peace in a non >>> dramatic, productive way and that's that. Apple knows the problems >>> and beating the dead horse isn't gong to helping the matter. >>> >>> As for the store, again, a highly exaggerated claim being made >>> here, as I have bought songs from iTunes and consider 99 cents worth >>> the price. Amazon doesn't do it for me, but that is, of course, my >>> personal preference. The album aspect and the registration, in the >>> big picture of accessibility overall, is not something I lose sleep >>> over. What Apple has done in a few short years compared to other >>> folks indicates to me that there is a method behind the proverbial >>> madness. Not too long ago, seemngly overnight, iTunes went from >>> limited accessibility to its current usability without any fanfare >>> or such from Apple. We had np special word or announcement made by >>> anyone from Apple. It just happened. There are other applications >>> and features that, from a productivity standpoint, are far more >>> important to be fixed than iTunes. It will all be fixed, but I know >>> that the complaints will only fall somewhere else after that and on >>> and on, as it Always seems to do. >>> >>> >>> Take Care >>> >>> John Panarese >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 6:41 PM, David Poehlman wrote: >>> >>>> If you want to talk about the truth, look at the aph publications >>>> about voiceover over the past couple of years. Loook at all the >>>> claims made by microsoft about "accessibility" over the past >>>> several years. We have been told before each release that things >>>> will get bettter and in some ways, they do but the price is too >>>> high. >>>> >>>> I came from a windows and dos background. I am not of the apple >>>> culture and neither is john. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tim Grady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac >>>> OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 6:27 PM >>>> Subject: Re: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? >>>> >>>> >>>> Considering that one of the main purposes of Itunes is supposed to >>>> be their store I would say that your 90 percent figure is no better >>>> then any story you'd get from say a used car salesman. I have >>>> noticed that Mac users are particularly loyal to Apple and not >>>> prone to telling the truth. >>>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 1:00 PM, John Panarese wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think there are some assumptions being made here. I don't >>>>> believe at all that anyone is being "ignored". That kind of >>>>> statement seems quite a bit out of place all things considered. >>>>> No >>>>> one knows exactly what is going on with iTunes and what Apple is >>>>> or is not doing about it. Also, in regard to overall >>>>> accessibility, I'd say that 90 or 95 percent accessible is a much >>>>> more accurate statement. The iTunes store can still be used and >>>>> what can't be accomplished with VoiceOver surely does not >>>>> constitute 50 percent inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take Care >>>>> >>>>> John Panarese >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Tim Grady wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Your right about that, and just to show you how much they're >>>>>> ignoring your concerns just take a look at every time there is an >>>>>> update to Itunes. Now this is only a small problem but the point >>>>>> is that it would really be an easy fix would they decide to make >>>>>> it. Did you ever notice that after an update you couldn't buy a >>>>>> song without hitting a totally inaccessible button? >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Dan Eickmeier wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also I believe the innitial setup of an account is not >>>>>>> accessible either. >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 11:10 AM, will lomas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> i think they know about it and we just have to wait and wait >>>>>>>> and wait >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:29, UCLA Bruins Fan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> we can purchase songs, assuming someone has helped us set up >>>>>>>>> an account, because this feature is still inaccessible. I >>>>>>>>> don't know what else we can do to persuade apple to fix this >>>>>>>>> issue! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:33 AM, will lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> we can buy songs from it so it is half way there but the >>>>>>>>>> window for buying albums etc is not. i still don't see why it >>>>>>>>>> takes 2 years to fix this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 21 Aug 2008, at 05:42, Chris Gilland wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your friend is exactly right. the store window isn't >>>>>>>>>>> accessible in the least. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you need help with legal matters? Would you like to have >>>>>>>>>>> access to legal advice 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? How >>>>>>>>>>> about assistance creating/modifying your will? Are you in >>>>>>>>>>> need of identity theft protection? I'd be happy to assist >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please visit my web site at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/chrisgilland >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> or E-mail me at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 704-817-8846 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you and have a blessed day. >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricky Buchanan" >>>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use >>>>>>>>>>> of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:17 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: iTunes Accessibility - have I been mistaken? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> G'day, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I read an article by Peter Abrams about the accessibility >>>>>>>>>>>> of the iPhone. It's about the *lack of* accessibility of >>>>>>>>>>>> the iPhone, mostly. Anyway, in the comments of course >>>>>>>>>>>> there's the requisite - I thought - idiot saying that >>>>>>>>>>>> iTunes isn't accessible. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I assumed this was a Windows user who had no clue and I was >>>>>>>>>>>> rather, erm, strident in informing him of his mistaken >>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs. Anyway, he's replied again listing specifics of >>>>>>>>>>>> what he can't do (mainly, interact with the main iTunes >>>>>>>>>>>> Story window in any way) and saying that "his blind >>>>>>>>>>>> friend" >>>>>>>>>>>> is not just a Leopard user but a beta tester for VO. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not a VO user myself as many of you know, so I'm concerned >>>>>>>>>>>> that I may have ended up with both feet in my mouth here! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The article is here: >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.it-analysis.com/business/change/content.php?cid >>>>>>>>>>>> =10678 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you search for "Big Man" you'll jump to his first >>>>>>>>>>>> comment. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to leave a reply on that web page, please >>>>>>>>>>>> please please be very polite and no flaming! Just facts >>>>>>>>>>>> about whether he's right or not... I don't want to create >>>>>>>>>>>> problems or "apple fanboy rage" or make VO users look bad >>>>>>>>>>>> in any way. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to reply on the list, I'll leave another >>>>>>>>>>>> comment there with links to the list replies via the >>>>>>>>>>>> archives. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> Ricky >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> ATMac - http://atmac.org/ - Assistive Technology for Mac OS >>>>>>>>>>>> X Users >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
