Thank you all for the responses. And to John Mason and Ajas Mohammed
for clarifying some technical issues in a way that I can translate to
others.
Want to add a couple of things.
First, I may eventually pick up some php. But not so much for this
project.
Second, the project is a start up that I am actually heading (1 of 2
leaders). I actually feel it DOES need to be in PHP simply because it
solves an issue later on in any investment round. That might sound
like a crazy thing, but it's about checking as many boxes as possible
in the event if future investment.
Finally, if I narrow this down, I would refine my question as follows:
How do you explain to someone who writes PHP ( in this example) why
their code (which I can read), is krap. They don't want to take my
word since I "don't do PHP." But krap is krap and you can see it if
you have experience in either code base.
_______________
Derrick Peavy
Sent from my iPhone
_______________
On Jul 9, 2010, at 15:56, Todd Hartle <[email protected]> wrote:
I've found when it comes to programming languages it's like
discussing politics or religion; you're just not going to convince
anyone that doesn't already get it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 9, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Derrick Peavy <[email protected]>
wrote:
Yea, I agree with that. If it's not my business or my project, then
yeah, I agree doing it in whatever is maintainable by the greatest
number of developers.
No interest in trying to talk anyone in the project into CF. No way.
Just wondering how you explain to someone the technical merits and
how the two interpreted languages actually vary at the execution
level.
And then secondly, how to explain to someone who has done or does
PHP, why their code (which I can read), is krap. They don't want to
take my word since I "don't do PHP." But krap is krap and you can
smell it if you have experience in either code base.
_____________________
Derrick Peavy
[email protected]
404-786-5036
“Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” -
Steve Jobs
________________________
On Jul 9, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Todd Hartle wrote:
Language is usually immaterial so use what you know. I'm an old CF
die hard myself even though I don't code much these days.
In terms of PHP etc, part of the problem is that finding good CF
people is getting harder and harder as other language become more
popular.
So based on technical merits either CF or PHP would do the job but
if something is being sold off finding people to maintain the
system may then indeed be a factor.
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid
going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:48:45 -0400
I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback.
------------
Starting a project.
And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they
are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling
amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about
folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders.
Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped
out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem.
I make money from my skills and can handle 500k page views a day
without breaking a sweat in my applications and sleep well knowing
I have no errors. But, their lack of understanding that CF even
still exists baffles me. It seems that people believe that the
only web language that exists now is PHP and possibly, Ruby (ergo,
PHP). (Hey, Bank of America is running CF. Maybe that's not a
selling point?)
But on this new project, the folks say we need to do it in PHP so
that it can be sold off if the project works. Ok. Fine, I get that
- I really, really do and I'm actually in favor of it because I
don't want a pissing contest at that future point. But I'm not
coding it in PHP. No such fracking way. I'll help, offer guidance
on DB design, help you translate CF code to PHP if you want.
Whatever.
And yet, these people keep saying, "Hey, it's easier for you to
learn PHP if you know CF, than for me to learn CF as a PHP
developer." That makes no sense to me.
On one code example (in PHP), the database connection was
established on line 13 in the file >>>> $con = mysql_connect(db/
id/pw) >>>> and then the connection was not closed until line 92
>>>> mysql_close($con); >>>>>>
Within those 80 lines of code, they did 2 http calls to external
web services, created two arrays, threw in 40 lines of comments
and then somewhere in the bottom, finally made a SQL statement.
WT-Flying-Frack????
Is this what people accept? Granted, this was by someone who
admittedly said, they were a horrible developer - but then in the
same breath asked me why this would be a problem and I kind of
stood there looking like I'd been hit by a bat.
I've never been shy about not being a university trained
developer. But I've worked with database design since 1993, and
with CF for over 12 years. So, hey, cut me some slack. I know I
can't give you the lingo about why an 80 line database connection
is bad in pure technical terms, but I damn well know that the
faster, cleaner, shorter you make your database calls, the better
off you are for so many reasons.
So, here's the question(s).
How do you explain to someone the basic core ideas behind CF and
PHP. PHP is an Apache module. CF runs on a java servlet or on
Jrun, Tomcat, etc. I'm honestly not the best to explain it. But
I've seen the performance side, and it's good. And I've seen the
code bloat in PHP files and it's bad. Yeah, I know anyone in any
language can write bad code. But damn if PHP doesn't seem to be
full of it.
An ATDC person asked me if CF was an interpreted language. I said
yes. And then he acted as if the argument was done because so is
PHP. And so, that means what?... Therefore the two are the same
and equal? Ergo, you go open source because everything thinks
thats best? Bad argument.
How do you explain to someone the technical idea behind something
like CF?
How do you explain that even in writing a PHP page that no one but
you will ever use, that you don't do an 80 line open database
connection call unless it's 80 lines of SQL and then, that's a
whole other issue?
_____________________
Derrick Peavy
[email protected]
404-786-5036
“Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” -Ste
ve Jobs
________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple
calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.
