Many thanks! On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:01 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Cool, added! http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_WPAN > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Allin Kahrl <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Jon- >> Thanks much for adding all that. I hadn't really tuned in to Ben-WPAN >> until recently, and now I feel like I understand why it's so exciting >> (especially knowing how asymmetric Werner's workshop is against >> conventional commercial R&D environments). >> >> I have one request: Is there a citation we can add to the "dark ages" >> statement at >> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_WPAN#Is_freedom_really_innovation?_As_in_we_have_the_freedom_to_make_our_own_WPAN? >> This sounds like an essential bit of history to inform our collective >> enthusiasm for open development, but I know nothing about it. >> >> Thanks again. >> [allin] >> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:51 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Ok, this is all super cool. I consolidated your guys answers here: >> > >> > http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_WPAN >> > >> > If you guys have more to add, there are some sections that would be good >> > to >> > get more notes like progress and outcomes. Even just those links to the >> > mailing list are useful. I needed somewhere to point people. >> > >> > I've been talking to a bunch of people about WPAN and the innovative >> > parts >> > of copyleft hardware. So, I might have some questions which I hope >> > provide >> > another dimension to what we are working on, and will do my best to >> > integrate onto the wiki. >> > >> > I'm trying to think more about why someone in the real world (consumers, >> > investors, technologists, etc) would be interested in our tech. >> > >> > My life post-meeting-Wolfgang, I now refrain from noting speculative >> > conversations I have but just not that my silence is not indicative of >> > inactivity, but mostly refrain from getting people's hopes up ;) and >> > making >> > myself sound more vaporous than I am ;) >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Werner Almesberger >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I wrote: >> >> > With my ATBEN/ATUSB prototypes, I've obtained good to acceptable BER >> >> > for a distance between stations of 4-7 m indoors in a residential >> >> > area with relatively few interferences. >> >> >> >> A clarification on the error rate (BER = Bit Error Rate, PER = Packet >> >> Error Rate): >> >> >> >> IEEE 802.15.4 defines a maximum PER of 1% for a PSDU of 20 bytes. >> >> This means that all bits of the PSDU, the length (1 byte) and the SFD >> >> (1 byte) be received without errors, and that enough bits of the >> >> preamble (4 bytes) must be received for the receiver to synchronize. >> >> To keep the numbers simple, let's assume that's 200 bytes in total. >> >> Thus >> >> >> >> 1-PER = 1-(1-BER)^200 >> >> >> >> With PER = 1%, we get a BER of about 50 ppm. >> >> >> >> Since our primary usage scenario, Internet access, would often use >> >> maximum-sized packets, I used max-sized packets for my measurements as >> >> well. The maximum PSDU size is 127 bytes. So we get 200+8*(127-20) = >> >> 1056 bits. >> >> >> >> Aiming for a PER of 1% with full-sized packets, the BER has to be >> >> lower, about 9.5 ppm. >> >> >> >> - Werner >> > >> > I learn a lot from you guys! So great! I'm excited by this >> > project...super >> > excited! >> > >> > My friends Sean Bonner, Joi Ito and Bunnie Huang are working on this >> > pop-up >> > project http://rdtn.org to make radiation sensors. I'm actually supposed >> > to >> > be in Tokyo right now working with them on some other projects, but the >> > tsunami/earthquake happened, and they got into this website and making >> > radiation sensors. >> > >> > http://blog.seanbonner.com/2011/04/11/what-im-working-on-rdtn/ >> > >> > Well, you can imagine that I pitched them hard on copyleft hardware, but >> > I >> > was too late and now Bunnie and some other tech companies are working on >> > this *product.* >> > >> > However, that is not the point, but rather, I think the sensor networks >> > are >> > super important for the future of our civilization. >> > >> > Part of what makes the Internet successful is that it allows for humans >> > to >> > stay spread out more, so we don't annihilate each other. And, the >> > success >> > rate for our species increases with increase of disasters, wars, >> > disease, >> > etc, as the population increases in size. >> > >> > Well, sensors are part of this mix IMO. So, I look forward to seeing how >> > we >> > can work on both sensors (getting info), sending that info >> > (internet/network/WPAN), and using that info (people/us!). >> > >> > The Internet are the wires, but we need to extend our bodies/information >> > gathering apparatuses and our senses, hence sensors are important for >> > survival of our species. And, a great place for us to occupy as copyleft >> > hardware. >> > >> > Bravo Werner! >> > >> > A sidenote, where should the Ben WPAN enhanced page go on the wiki? I >> > think >> > we should have a stack of our core technologies on the main page. >> > >> > What else are we doing that is innovative and in that technology stack >> > (and >> > not talking products!)? >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > -- >> > Jon Phillips >> > http://rejon.org/ | http://fabricatorz.com/ >> > chat/skype: kidproto | irc: rejon >> > +1.415.830.3884 (global) | +1-510-499-0894 (sf) >> > +86-187-1003-9974 (beijing) >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Qi Hardware Discussion List >> > Mail to list (members only): [email protected] >> > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qi Hardware Discussion List >> Mail to list (members only): [email protected] >> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion > > > > -- > Jon Phillips > http://rejon.org/ | http://fabricatorz.com/ > chat/skype: kidproto | irc: rejon > +1.415.830.3884 (global) | +1-510-499-0894 (sf) > +86-187-1003-9974 (beijing) > >
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