אם סטולמן לא מרצה באוניברסטאות בגלל דרישה של הפלסטינים הרי זה הוא חרם על האקדמיה הישראלית. משהו, שהעמותה, בעיני, לא יכולה לשתף עימו פעולה.
גם לנו יש כבוד עצמי. שנקר לגיטמית בדיוק כמו כל מקום אחר בארץ. הפלסטינים לא יקבעו לנו היכן ינתנו הרצאות. ובכל מקרה, המקור לא צריכה להיכנס לזה. רם און. On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Ira Abramov <hama...@ira.abramov.org>wrote: > אני ממש נגד החרם האקדמי, אבל אני מבין שאתה מפרש את הנסיון להוציא את ההרצאות > לאולם פרטי ולעקוף את החרם ככניעה ולא כפתרון? > > אם הגישה של אלי, משה ושלך מנצחת, אז אנחנו באמת מבזבזים פה זמן מקלדת יקר, כי > אין פתרון שיצליח להשקיט את כל הצדדים, וסטולמן יחטוף בישראל אות קין שזה מצער > ואולי אפילו פוגע בקהילה. זו אולי לא יריה משמעותית ברגל אבל זה חתך ניר מאוד > לא נעים באגודל. אם אין לי תמיכה במציאת אולמות (קרובים ככל הניתן גאוגרפית > לאוניברסיטאות שבהן בוטלו ההרצאות, שיהיה ברור!), אז אני אעזוב עכשיו ולא אתחיל > אפילו לבזבז את זמני. > > לעומת זאת אם יש מי שכן מוכן לפתרון, אני מוכן להשקיע את זמני הלא פנוי לטובת > הפתרון, ואפילו לארגן אולם לא קטן בירושלים, בתקווה להביא לשם גם קהל גדול לא > יהודי. > > בשלב זה אני מציע שנפסיק אם כך להתווכח ופשוט נצביע בעד ונגד הפתרון. > > On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 09:07, Ram-on Agmon <agm...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> המקור לא היתה שותפה באף שלב בביקור הנוכחי של סטולמן בארץ, ואני לא חושב >> שהיא צריכה להתחיל להיכנס לקלחת כרגע. >> >> באופן עקרוני, אני נגד שיתוף פעולה עם חרם כל שהוא על איזה שהוא מוסד אקדמי. >> ישראלי או פלסטיני. >> >> >> רם און >> >> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 9:04 AM, E L <nak...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Fine, I accept what you say, now the only thing left to decide is if >>> hamakor >>> is going to give a hand to boycotting Israeli academy. >>> I call everyone to boycott any lecture of RMS until he agrees to give up >>> that silly >>> notion. >>> >>> Ely >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Ira Abramov <hama...@ira.abramov.org>wrote: >>> >>>> I thought we found a nice resolution here - RMS *wants* to speak in >>>> Israel, he explained how we can go about it, he's still going to give talks >>>> at the Palestinian venues and I bet he will use those to educate them about >>>> how academic boycotting is a bad thing. He can't possibly gain anything by >>>> saying now that he won't support academic boycotts, because then his trip >>>> may be canceled. Stop calling it "selling his soul", he's doing the >>>> correct, >>>> pragmatic thing! >>>> >>>> Now can we please all grow up and stop dragging this discussion into the >>>> local politics? Our goal should be to find new halls now and show that free >>>> software's ideas are beyond the local problems of one region or another, or >>>> we are no better than his Palestinian hosts or the people of Mint that Omer >>>> keeps reminding us of in his signature. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 08:40, E L <nak...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Says who? >>>>> No one asked him if he is willing to lecture in Israel for money, >>>>> you are just assuming that. I'm pretty sure he will find some other >>>>> excuse. >>>>> Probably they wont agree to share expenses with Israelis. Or threaten >>>>> him >>>>> to chose either the PA or Israel. >>>>> >>>>> One thing is sure, a lot less people will want to hear him anyhow, >>>>> who wants to hear a freedom activist that sell his soul for money? >>>>> >>>>> Ely >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Omer Zak <w...@zak.co.il> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In other words, Stallman's cancellation of speeches in Israeli >>>>>> universities is indeed a victory in the worldwide attempt to promote >>>>>> academic boycott of Israel. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that it is a battle which can be won by means of some >>>>>> money. So let's arrange funding for Stallman's trip to our area to >>>>>> replace Palestinian funds, and without the kind of strings that the >>>>>> Palestinians attached to their funds. >>>>>> >>>>>> Where to send my 100NIS contribution? >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Omer Zak >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 08:02 +0300, Ira Abramov wrote: >>>>>> > I'm pretty suree RMS' reply bounced so here I am quoting it for all >>>>>> of >>>>>> > you. he sent me a longer reply in person and they both confirm what >>>>>> I >>>>>> > thought - he's more interested in fulfilling his original obligation >>>>>> > and use it for promoting collaboration. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Moreover, he says the ban imposed on him is NOT Israel in its >>>>>> > entirety, but only the Universities (the private Shenkar College >>>>>> seems >>>>>> > kosher according to him). The weird but sensible thing to do is find >>>>>> > lecture halls outside the universities and there would be no >>>>>> conflict. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I think there are now several people in the readers who should >>>>>> > marinade their hats for making this a bigger political issue than it >>>>>> > really is. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I'll be posting his personal replies to me in my blog later, and >>>>>> > sending them to the papers. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 07:36, Richard Stallman <r...@gnu.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > I saw that you sent an E-mail message canceling all of >>>>>> your >>>>>> > talks >>>>>> > in Israel= in the upcoming visit. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Not all of them -- only the ones at universities. It is the >>>>>> > universities that the funders object to. I have one planned >>>>>> > talk >>>>>> > which is not at a university, which I still plan to give. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I will forward your message to them. I hope you can indeed >>>>>> > work >>>>>> > something out, because cooperation between Israelis and >>>>>> > Palestinians >>>>>> > is good. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Another possible approach is to find other venues for the >>>>>> > other talks >>>>>> > I was going to give in Israel. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Linux Mint is insecure by design as it won't accept contributions (bug >>>>>> reports) from Israelis who choose to defend themselves against suicide >>>>>> bombers: http://eclelef.blogspot.com/2009/05/palestine_03.html >>>>>> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. >>>>>> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with >>>>>> which >>>>>> I may be affiliated in any way. >>>>>> WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discussions mailing list >>>>>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il >>>>>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discussions mailing list >>>>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il >>>>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discussions mailing list >>> Discussions@hamakor.org.il >>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions >>> >> >> >
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