Hi Shai,

In Shlomi's E-mail message, which preceded your reply, there were two

One link was a warning against being alone with females during
technical conferences, because of the risk that they might set one up
for a sexual assault accusation. This warning is valid not only in
technical conferences but also in other situations unrelated to Free
Software. It had nothing to say about whether female software
developers are technically inferior to male software developers or vice
The warning's validity is also independent of our trusting (or not
trusting) ESR's own word. If it is not a "women in tech" pressure
group, it could, for example, be a frame up by a company whose business
is harmed by the work of the developer in question. And if Linus is not
in danger of being framed up, it could be another Free Software

The other link was about acceptance of pull requests from people with
more diversity points even if those pull requests do not have
sufficient technical merit to be accepted based upon their technical
merit. ESR does not know to this day which label/s does
'djangoconcardiff' have, such as what is its gender.

The links in Shlomi's second E-mail message are not related to this
discussion (except for showing that ESR is a Renaissance man).

The conclusion is that it does not really matter whether you trust
ESR's word or not.

--- Omer Zak
(the proud(?) owner of two "diversity labels": Deaf and Elderly)

On Thu, 2018-09-20 at 09:24 +0300, Shai Berger wrote:
> Hi Shlomi,
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 02:42:50 +0300
> Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org> wrote:
> > Hi Shai,
> > 
> > one note.
> > 
> > On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:25:40 +0300
> > Shai Berger <s...@platonix.com> wrote:
> > [... snipped ...]  
> > > At any case, I would highly discourage taking community advice
> > > from
> > > ESR. Referring people to his "how to ask smart questions" is one
> > > of
> > > the surest ways to drive them away from your community, and his
> > > "Sex Tips for Geeks"[2], as much as I recall from looking at them
> > > many years ago, are misogynistic and generally appalling.
> > >   
> > 
> > This seems like an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem fallacy
> > where you say "Person X is wrong here just because he also said
> > this
> > and that with which I disagree".
> I can see how you'd read this into my earlier message, because I left
> out the part of the argument which, late last night, seemed kind of
> obvious to me:
> In the messages you linked, ESR throws around general accusations at
> "women-in-tech groups", based on an un-named source for whose
> reliability we are supposed to take ESR's own word. The very nature
> of
> the allegations casts huge doubt on them, but the onlt evidence which
> gives them an iota of credibility would be ESR's character. In this
> view, my argument is not "ESR is wrong here because he said other
> things with which I disagree" but rather "ESR is asking me to trust
> his
> judgment here, and on these subjects, I have reasons not to trust
> him".
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