Speaking of Zazo[1], I actually found its abstraction extremely similar to our current abstraction, ResolveLib[2]. I’m not sure it’s coincidence, we took inspiration from similar sources, or this is simply the right way to do it, but how the logic matches is quite surprising to me.
I’m quite sure we would be able to find some way to consolidate efforts once we find the chance, but for the moment, progress in ResolveLib (and by extension Pipenv) would likely benefit pip developing a proper resolver (be it Zazo or otherwise). TP [1]: https://github.com/pradyunsg/zazo [2]: https://github.com/sarugaku/resolvelib Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Dan Ryan Sent: 21 August 2018 22:03 To: Tzu-ping Chung Cc: Chris Jerdonek; distutils sig Subject: Re: [Distutils] Re: pipenv and pip There was a specific bug related to pipenv-only functionality which is why the vcs ref is obtained. Pip now by default prefers ephemeral wheels, while pipenv maintains a copy of editable repos currently. The work Tzu Ping has been discussing and the work in pipenv currently are separate. You can also not simply read some lines of pipenv and assume there should be a 1-1 functional equivalence. Sometimes we will have overlap and sometimes we will have bugs. In the specific case you mentioned, we simply make sure to check out whatever version is requested in the Pipfile before doing resolution and handing off the results to pip for installation. So while it may seem like we are simply doing things over again that pip already handles, we have different motivations and while we very likely have plenty of bugs, there is more context than that we did something that pip also does. In any event, I’m not sure this mailing list is the right place to do code reviews; we would happily accept any feedback if you make it on the project itself. Pipenv has a lot of cleanup work to do. We are in the process of tackling that now. If you have ideas for how to tackle that, we would love to hear them :) With regard to zazo — it’s been mentioned to us many times but we’ve been in touch with Pradyun as I mentioned and he said he was very busy and couldn’t coordinate efforts at all on the resolver front. Zazo isn’t actually an implementation, it’s an abstraction layer. We built a directed graph and layered a resolver on top of it. Since this is a primary functionality pipenv has always wanted to offer (as far as my understanding went) and has always basically failed at because of various tooling issues, we have been working for the last 4-8 weeks pretty much in seclusion trying to tackle this. Dan Ryan // pipenv maintainer gh: @techalchemy On Aug 21, 2018, at 9:02 AM, Tzu-ping Chung <uranu...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Chris, >From my understanding (it is totally possible I could miss something), >get_vcs_deps() is specifically used only for resolution (to populate Git hash etc. in the lock file, if I’m not mistaken), not installation. This is why I mentioned the two main aspects Pipenv interact with pip for in the very beginning—the situation of the two parts are very different; the latter (resolution) is significantly worse than the former. I admit Pipenv has not been a good citizen in that regard. I do hope to clean most (if not all) of those up with the new resolver implementation. Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the disturbance. TP Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Chris Jerdonek Sent: 21 August 2018 19:58 To: Tzu-ping Chung Cc: distutils sig Subject: Re: [Distutils] Re: pipenv and pip On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:02 AM, Tzu-ping Chung <uranu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Pipenv mainly interacts with pip for two things: install/uninstall/upgrade > packages, and to gain information > about a package (what versions are available, what dependencies does a > particular version has, etc.). > For the former case, we are currently using it with subprocesses, and it is > likely the intended way of > interaction. I just want to say that this didn't appear to be the case when I looked at the code. For example, the pipenv function obtain_vcs_req() called inside get_vcs_deps() uses internal pip API's directly -- apparently for its installs of "VCS dependencies" in editable mode: https://github.com/pypa/pipenv/blob/5da09fd24e3b63f28f77454594649bd2912fb17d/pipenv/utils.py#L1187-L1196 The function obtain_vcs_req() seems to bypass a lot of the logic inside VersionControl.obtain() (which I know because this is an area of the code that I've actively been working on improving). I also noticed that pipenv's code here seems to result in the installation routine unnecessarily being called twice in succession in some cases, since it calls update() even after obtain() is called (and a RevOptions object shouldn't be getting passed to is_commit_id_equal() there -- that method invocation will always return False). It was a little frustrating to see these methods being called in this way, because it made it appear to me that new, different problems might be getting introduced in pipenv, even as bugs are getting fixed in pip. --Chris > I have to say, however, that the experience is not flawless. > pip has a significant startup time, > and does not offer chances for interaction once it is started on running, so > we really don’t have a good > way to, for example, provide installation progress bar for the user, unless > we parse pip’s stdout directly. > These are not essential to Pipenv’s functionality, however, so they are more > like an annoyance rather > than glaring problems. > > The other thing Pipenv uses pip for—getting package information—is more > troubling (to me, personally). > Pipenv has a slightly different need from pip regarding dependency > resolution. pip can (and does) freely > drop dependencies that does not match the current environment, but Pipenv > needs to generate a lock file > for an abstract platform that works for, say, both macOS and Windows. This > means pip’s resolver is not > useful for us, and we need to implement our own. Our own resolver, however, > still needs to know about > packages it gets, and we are left with two choices: a. try re-implement the > same logic, or b. use pip internals > to cobble something together. > > We tried to go for a. for a while, but as you’d easily imagine, our own > implementation is buggy, cannot > handle edge cases nearly as well, and fielded a lot of complaints along the > lines of “I can do this in pip, why > can’t I do the same in Pipenv”. One example is how package artifacts are > discovered. At my own first > glance, I thought to myself this wouldn’t be that hard—we have a simple API, > and the naming conventions are > there, so as long as we specify sources in Pipfile (we do), we should be > able to discover them no problem. > I couldn’t be more wrong. There are find_links, dependency_links, pip.conf > for the user, for the machine, all > sorts of things, and for everything quirk in pip we don’t replicate 100%, > issues are filed urging use to fix it. > In the end we gave up and use pip’s internal PackageFinder instead. > > This is a big problem going forward, and we are fully aware of that. The > strategy we are taking at the > moment is to try to limit the surface area of pip internals usage. Dan > mentioned we have been building a > resolver for Pipenv[1], and we took the chance to work toward centralising > things interfacing with pip > internals. Those are still internals, of course, but we now have a > relatively good idea what we actually need > from pip, and I’d be extremely happy if some parts of pip can come out as > standalone with official blessing. > The things I am particularly interested in (since they would be beneficial > for Pipenv) are: > > * VcsSupport > * PackageFinder > * WheelBuilder (and everything that comes with it like the wheel cache, > preparer, unpack_url, etc.) > > Sorry for the very long post, but I want to get everything out so it might > be easier to paint a complete picture > of the state we are currently in. > > > [1]: https://github.com/sarugaku/passa > > > > Yours, > > TP > > -- > Tzu-ping Chung (@uranusjr) > uranu...@gmail.com > https://uranusjr.com > > On 21/8, 2018, at 00:00, distutils-sig-requ...@python.org wrote: > > Send Distutils-SIG mailing list submissions to > distutils-sig@python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > distutils-sig-requ...@python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > distutils-sig-ow...@python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Distutils-SIG digest..."Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: pipenv and pip (Dan Ryan) > 2. Re: pipenv and pip (Dan Ryan) > > From: Dan Ryan <d...@danryan.co> > Subject: [Distutils] Re: pipenv and pip > Date: 20 August 2018 at 22:04:11 GMT+8 > To: Chris Jerdonek <chris.jerdo...@gmail.com> > Cc: distutils sig <distutils-sig@python.org> > > > The truth is that it’s basically impossible to gauge bugs in pip vs bugs in > our patches to it which are often a lot more likely — reproductions of edge > cases can be impossible but there are specific things I know we broke (like > parsing certain kinds of extras, previously) — mostly bugs land in pips > issue tracker before we report them or we will direct people there. We have > like 2 active maintainers and we are maintaining like 15 pipenv related > projects so we normally just point people at pip rather than file an issue. > I am usually on irc as well if needed, and I often ask for clarification > there > > Dan Ryan // pipenv maintainer > gh: @techalchemy > > On Aug 20, 2018, at 4:32 AM, Chris Jerdonek <chris.jerdo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks. Is the state of affairs as you described them what you're > planning for the future as well, or do you anticipate any changes > worthy of note? > > Also, are any of the bugs filed in pipenv's tracker due to bugs or > rough spots in pip -- is there a way to find those, like by using a > label? It would be good to be able to know about those so pip can > improve and become more useful. It doesn't seem like any bugs have > been filed in pip's tracker in the past year by any of pipenv's top > contributors. That seems a bit surprising to me given pipenv's heavy > reliance on pip (together with the fact that I know pip has its share > of issues), or is there another way you have of communicating > regarding things that interconnect with pip? > > Thanks, > --Chris > > > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:51 AM, Dan Ryan <d...@danryan.co> wrote: > Sure I can grab that— we patch pip because we use some internals to handle > resolution and we have some bugs around that currently. They aren’t > upstreamed because they aren’t actually present in pip, only in pipenv. > Pipenv crosses back and forth across the virtualenv boundary during the > process. Pipenv relies on piptools and vendors a patched version of pip to > ensure consistency as well as to provide a few hacks around querying the > index. We do have a bit of reimplementation around some kinds of logic, > with the largest overlap being in parsing of requirements. > > As we handle some resolution, which isn’t really something pip does, there > is no cli interface to achieve this. I maintain a library (as of last week) > which provides compatibility shims between pip versions 8-current. It is a > good idea to use the cli, but we already spend enough resources forking > subprocesses into the background that it is a lot more efficient to use the > internals, which I track quite closely. The preference toward cli > interaction is largely to allow internal api breakage which we don’t mind. > > For the most part, we have open channels of communication as necessary. We > rely as heavily as we can on pip, packaging, and setuptools to connect the > dots, retrieve package info, etc. > > Dan Ryan // pipenv maintainer > gh: @techalchemy > > On Aug 20, 2018, at 2:41 AM, Chris Jerdonek <chris.jerdo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > Can someone explain to me the relationship between pipenv and pip, > from the perspective of pipenv's maintainers? > > For example, does pipenv currently reimplement anything that pip tries > to do, or does it simply call out to pip through the CLI or through > its internal API's? Does it have any preferences or future plans in > this regard? How about upstreaming to pip fixes or things that would > help pipenv? > > I've been contributing to pip more lately, and I had a look at > pipenv's repository for the first time today. > https://github.com/pypa/pipenv > > Given that pip's code was recently made internal, I was a bit > surprised to see that pipenv vendors and patches pip: > https://github.com/pypa/pipenv/tree/master/pipenv/patched/notpip > Before I had always assumed that pipenv used pip's CLI (because that's > what pip says you should do). > > I also noticed that some bugs in pipenv's tracker seem closely related > to pip's behavior, but I don't recall seeing any bugs or PR's in pip's > tracker reported from pipenv maintainers. > > Without knowing a whole lot more than what I've stated, one concern I > have is around fragmentation, duplication of work, and repeating > mistakes (or introducing new ones) if a lot of work is going into > pipenv without coordinating with pip. Is this in any way similar to > the beginning of what happened with distutils, setuptools, and > distribute that we are still recovering from? > > --Chris > -- > Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/2QECNWSHNEW7UBB24M2K5BISYJY7GMZF/ > > > > > From: Dan Ryan <d...@danryan.co> > Subject: [Distutils] Re: pipenv and pip > Date: 20 August 2018 at 22:09:23 GMT+8 > To: Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> > Cc: Distutils <distutils-sig@python.org> > > > How would I (said library) maintain compatibility? I’m pretty clever. The > shim library doesn’t actually do anything besides provide import paths. If I > shim something that didn’t exist, it shims None for any pip versions where > it doesn’t exist. So for example if you are running pip 9 and you import > RequirementTracker from the shims library you just import None > > Dan Ryan // pipenv maintainer > gh: @techalchemy > > On Aug 20, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 12:25, Wes Turner <wes.tur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Monday, August 20, 2018, Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I know "security by obscurity" doesn't work, but I'm happier if > details of this library *aren't* widely known - it's not something I'd > want to encourage people using, nor is it supported by pip, as it's > basically a direct interface into pip's internal functions, papering > over the name changes that we did in pip 10 specifically to dissuade > people from doing this. > > > > If someone was committing to identifying useful API methods, parameters, and > return values; > writing a ~PEP; > implementing said API; > and maintaining backwards compatible shims for some reason; > would something like `pip.api` be an appropriate namespace? > (now that we're on version 18 with a faster release cycle)? > > > I'm not quite sure I know what you mean here. The key point is that > pip 18.0 might have an internal function pip._internal.xxx, and in pip > 18.1 there's no such function, and the functionality doesn't even > exist any more. How would a 3rd party project maintain backwards > compatible shims in the face of that? Agreed it's not likely in > practice - but we're not going to guarantee it. > > To be honest I don't see the point of discussing pip's internal API. > It's just that - internal. I'd rather discuss useful (general) > packaging libraries, that tools can build on - pip can vendor those > and act as (just) another consumer, rather than getting into debates > about support and internal APIs. > > Paul > -- > Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/7CCBE53AM72JYQVEW3PH7ODVRFZV4WXA/ > > > > -- > Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ > > > > -- > Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/BUJQXQ6NLWF5XX6JTG7JFTZT6E5QSS5E/ > -- Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/2AECY5QJNKJB5ANR6OYYGWB7MD2JS67A/
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