The more I use Trac, the more I appreciate its power. I'm normally all for 
Progress™ but I'm not sure GitHub's UI is up to it. 
(Being able to find the old discussion is super handy: it's not that often 
that an idea has not come up before at this stage.) 

*I'd be interested to see what a prototype export looks like in a test 
GitHub repo. Maybe it's possible... (Note this is in bold.)*

Maybe more people would participate, but I'm not sure... Do we just suspect 
that? I worry we go to a load of effort for no real gain. 

Current input is quite good I'd say. Claude and Simon are regulars. There's 
a good number more who make frequent appearances. 
I think there's more people commenting than we suspect. (Anyone trying the 
export would be able to do numbers I'd guess...)

If the new Triaging role on GH would allow "Request a review..." I think it 
would be super handy. (But currently that's restricted to the more powerful 
roles.) (I'm nagging GH about as best I can but if anyone knows anyone...)

Happy to comment more if people want, but those are the highlights. 


On Wednesday, 7 August 2019 12:56:18 UTC+2, Josh Smeaton wrote:
> Mariatta has put together a some PEPs for migrating CPython issues over to 
> GitHub.
> proposing the migration.
> migration plan.
> Django and Cpython are not the same, so there'll be substantial 
> differences. But it's worth familiarising oneself with prior art.
> For what it's worth I'd strongly support such a move just for the increase 
> in engagement.
> Carlton, Mariusz, how would you gauge the level of triage activity in Trac 
> from non-core members? High/Medium/Low?
> describes 
> the new triage and maintain roles, but they're still to be granted to 
> trusted individuals (which would be an excellent gateway into full core 
> membership if that is the direction Django is going to continue in).
> On Wednesday, 7 August 2019 17:46:18 UTC+10, John Gooding wrote:
>> Hi Aymeric,
>> You bring up a lot of good points. There will undoubtedly be challenges 
>> and huge amount of work in moving to a new system, or implementing any big 
>> sweeping changes, however, I truly honestly believe that it would be worth 
>> it in the long run, and the payoff would far outweigh the cost.
>> As far as Microsoft owning github, etc I think it is almost moot. Any 
>> process will have some amount of vendor lock in, whether github, atlassian 
>> (jira & bitbucket parent company), or even gitlab. I think what is 
>> important is to pick one system as a community that we are happy with. Any 
>> one of those three could do what is ultimately needed, which is a 
>> centralized and consistent development platform.
>> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 12:33:59 AM UTC-7, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>>> Hello John,
>>> This was discussed before, when we moved from self-hosted svn to 
>>> GitHub-hosted git, but I'm not sure there are public archives of all 
>>> discussions.
>>> As far as I remember, the main points to tackle are:
>>> 1. Does GitHub allow "anonymous triage" i.e. labelling, closing, and 
>>> reopening issues by non-committers? I think there was a recent announcement 
>>> in this area. I didn't check the details. Previously, bot-powered 
>>> workarounds were suggested, but they wouldn't provide a good user 
>>> experience. You want discoverable buttons, not a cheat sheet of magic 
>>> comments.
>>> 2. Does the GitHub UI scale to thousands of issues? In theory, any 
>>> classification system can be reproduced with namespaced labels e.g. 
>>> "component:ORM", "status:ready-for-checkin", etc. In practice, it's 
>>> unlikely to be as convenient as what currently exists on Trac.
>>> Perhaps it's just me, but I always found GitHub issues hard to use when 
>>> I had more than on page of issues. Indeed, at that point, I need a 
>>> labelling system to filter issues. Then I need to keep all the rules of 
>>> that system in my head instead of having the UI guide me — and prevent me 
>>> from infringing the system...
>>> 3. How do we migrate issues history from Trac to GitHub? Preserving 
>>> comment authorship doesn't seem obvious, especially for authors who don't 
>>> have the same username on Trac and GitHub or authors who don't have a 
>>> GitHub account.
>>> Initially an effort was made to sync usernames of core devs between Trac 
>>> and GitHub to prevent security problems but that's a small subset of 
>>> contributors.
>>> 4. Are we still able to export everything from GitHub and move on to the 
>>> next thing? Perhaps there's an obvious answer. I didn't look. Usually 
>>> Django takes a pragmatic position: we won't reject GitHub outright because 
>>> it isn't open source. However, we wouldn't want to lock ourselves into a 
>>> platform we don't control.
>>> Who would have bet, three years ago, that GitHub would be the property 
>>> of Microsoft today? What if Microsoft sells it to Oracle in three years? 
>>> It's nice to keep our options open :-)
>>> We put the code there because we were confident that we could pull the 
>>> git history. Then everyone started using pull requests, which was likely a 
>>> good thing, but wasn't really planned or thought through, and I don't think 
>>> we can export PR comments meaningfully. GitHub did some good vendor lock in 
>>> there.
>>> 5. How do we preserve links to SVN commits? Currently, they're 
>>> redirected on with this nginx rule:
>>>     rewrite ^/changeset/(\d+)/?$ 
>>>$1/ permanent;
>>> and then redirected again by this application:
>>> It would be nice to preserve these links in issues copied from Trac to 
>>> GitHub, which probably means pre-processing comments to rewrite links.
>>> There may be more, but that's what comes to mind!
>>> A process DEP 
>>> <>
>>>  is 
>>> the way to go to propose this change.
>>> Best regards,
>>> -- 
>>> Aymeric.
>>> On 7 Aug 2019, at 08:24, John Gooding <> wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose moving Django issues to github and make a real 
>>> decision on it here in this thread. If there has been a recent discussion 
>>> on this I apologize, but searching for issue tracking / github links to 
>>> about every thread ever posted here.
>>> I believe this would lower the barrier to entry and to help promote 
>>> community involvement. People are already there, people already use it, and 
>>> we already do pull requests there. Now I could be wrong here, but I also 
>>> feel that it would improve and promote discussion about changes and feature 
>>> additions to Django, because right now they are pretty hidden away in the 
>>> current system. 
>>> I'd also like to see the inclusion of a "discussion" label or similar 
>>> for issues. I think many of the conversations here on this forum would be 
>>> much better off as github issues. I see a lot of great stuff, and it's not 
>>> clear at all what the status is, has it moved forward, been officially 
>>> denied? etc. If they are github issues they will have definitive 
>>> resolutions, whatever it may be, and links to relevant code, PR's etc if 
>>> needed.
>>> I think there is a huge amount to gain by consolidating the ticket 
>>> system and many of the discussions on this forum into github's issue 
>>> tracker. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be wroth the effort, and we 
>>> only have much to gain as a community from it. But that's just my 2 cents. 
>>> I'd love to hear what others think, for or against it.
>>> John
>>> -- 
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