You guys are spectacular! Thanks! I'll give these replies a few reads and just keep plugging along. I'm going to sort of circle back and see if it wouldn't be a good idea to restart my project with a fresh set of eyes now that I've spent a bit of time with Django.
Derek, The test cookie thing is -- as I understand it -- you place a test cookie, then check if it's there. It's basically a check to see if the browser accepts cookies. I'm just not entirely sure when I should and shouldn't make the check when using parts of the built-in auth moduel. I guess if I'm using the login view, it's will test for me. I sort of started with the whole auth system, then backed out of using the form and the view just to learn how it works on a basic level. And in browsing the code, I saw the test cookie functions and did some research. Thanks again! Robin On May 31, 8:07 am, Derek <[email protected]> wrote: > On May 30, 9:30 pm, Robin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A little while ago, I was approached about building a basic web site > > for a small store. The requirements were pretty typical and read like > > a menu of web development tutorials. This was to be a data driven > > site that any decent web developer could build. I, however, am not a > > web developer, decent or otherwise. So, I turned the assignment down > > and decided it's time I looked into learning something about web > > development. > > > I looked at everything from ASP to Java to PHP and even the likes of > > Drupal and Joomla. I liked the ideas and patterns behind Django as a > > framework ( MVC = :) ) and Python as a language. The combination > > seemed like perfect middle ground to me. Things were going well as I > > worked through the tutorial and explored the documentation to dig > > deeper into core Django topics. Where am I today? > > > I'm struggling a bit with Django, to be honest. Or maybe I'm > > struggling with Python, I'm not completely certain which. Maybe it's > > because I'm trying to learn web development and Python at the same > > time. I'm certainly no genius, but I'm not a bonehead either...at > > least my mother doesn't think so. ;) > > > The individual technical ideas are presented well and I can always > > find enough information to learn more. But Django as a whole feels > > less cohesive. Or maybe it's that Django sometimes feels...TOO > > flexible? There are certainly a lot of choices in terms of how much > > Django to use and how much to roll yourself. Guidance seems to be > > offered on a per-module basis. Maybe that's just how it is and I'm > > looking for structure where there is none available. > > > I'm not sure what to override...when to call the super classes > > corresponding method. Do I have to concern myself with the test > > cookie idea? Should I name my URLs? Is mixing positional and keyword > > arguments OK? Are generic views the best way, or just the quickest > > way? > > > I guess it boils down to a concern over making poor choices and > > learning bad habits. If I'm going to spend any amount of time with > > this web development hing, I want to do it right. I'm also fighting > > my urge to build everything myself. Sure it would be plenty flexible, > > but it would also take longer and wouldn't leverage the great work > > done by all of Django's contributors. > > > So, what am I rattling on about then? > > > Judging by some of the posts I've read since joining the group, I'm > > sure there are a bunch of folks who would appreciate some guidance > > and / or best practices from the more experienced Django developers. > > I understand everyone learns and progresses differently, but I would > > really appreciate your take on things. > > > How much do you use built in Django functionality? Are there > > components you tend to avoid? Do you use Django only for certain > > types of projects? Do you struggle with Python or Django? Is the > > source code a good place to spend some time? Is your authentication > > system home-grown? Have you been bitten in the behind by using too > > much Django? Not enough? > > > I realize this is a lot to ask, but I think it's a good thing that we > > help newer developers do things the right way. I certainyl want to > > become a contributing member of this group, but not until I won't give > > bad advice and flat out wrong answers. ;) > > > I've gone through a good chunk of the Django Book online. Is this a > > good resource or do you have other recommendations? There aren't all > > that many books on Django, but there are a few. Do any do a better > > job than the others of guiding you to the best way to build web > > sites / apps? I sure wish there was a book that kept pace with the > > changes and the miost recent version. Is the fact that there isn't > > much available a bad sign? > > > Just jump in and adjust as I learn my lessons? > > > Regards, > > > Robin > > Hi Robin > > Not sure I can address all your issues, so I will just pick up on a > few... > > One thing from the start -> " If I'm going to spend any amount of time > with this web development thing, I want to do it right." You will - > eventually. Its often really hard to do it right first time because > you do not have enough experience to know if you're making a mistake! > Getting going, doing stuff and maybe putting out in public the parts > you are most concerned/unsure about is the best way to get the > experience... > > "struggling with Python" > > I cannot say that its essential to know Python in depth before > starting web programming, but I would say it would be a huge help. > > Its not clear what programming experience you have. If none, then its > worth starting with the basics of programming. If you have some, then > try and find a comparison between the language you used and Python > (pref. written by a Python person). > > Some useful "getting started" tutorials: > *http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/easytut/index.html > *http://www.gidnetwork.com/b-26.html > > After reading and trying out what someone else has done, try and build > stand-alone stuff in Python. A simple use case is accessing and > processing Excel spreadsheets using xlwt and xlrd. If you ever have > to do any data processing for third-parties, you're almost bound to > use/re-use what you have done here. Otherwise think of a common need > from the area you work in. > > "struggling with Django" > > Django is meant to be comprehensive. That's good if you want to be > able to do anything, but bad if you're just getting started. If I > showed my old self from 2 years ago the code that I have written > today, I'd be overwhelmed, no doubt. Learning programming is > incremental and experiential. You learn code by writing; and improve > code by writing more. Remember (and this is easy to forget!!) that > the entire source code of Django is open to you... take some time and > read some of it - Python is designed to be a readable language. If > its too overwhelming, then try and look at the code of some of the > apps that are out there (and there are lots!). You'll see an entire > "module" and start to get some idea of how it all hangs together. > Then try it yourself; maybe start with something already there and > make changes to it until it breaks - try and figure out why - fix it - > and keep going. Use the same basic concepts to try and build > something new-ish yourself from scratch. As you go along and get > really stuck, post questions to the list (and please check first in > the archives - many people experience similar problems). > > Q&A > > Q: How much do you use built in Django functionality? > A: All the time! > > Q: Are there components you tend to avoid? > A: None that come to mind; but I just use the ones I really need > ("learn as you go"). > > Q: Do you use Django only for certain types of projects? > A: Its my primary web development framework; in my situation there is > no need to use multiple ones (and probably not a good idea when you're > just starting) > > Q: Do you struggle with Python or Django? > A: Often - but that is when I *know* that I am learning > > Q: Is the source code a good place to spend some time? > A: See above. > > Q: Is your authentication system home-grown? > A: Nope; using 'auth' works for me > > Q: Have you been bitten in the behind by using too much Django? > A: Not so far... > > Q: I sure wish there was a book that kept pace with the changes and > the most recent version. Is the fact that there isn't much available > a bad sign? > A: Depends if you think the publishing industry is keeping up with the > web programming industry ;) I think you'll have to get one of the > committers to answer that; but to be honest I would rather they fixed > bugs and added features than wrote books (my 2c). In the meantime, > the online docs are readable, comprehensive and up-to-date. Django > has one of the most well-documented codebase of any open source > project. > > Hope some of this helps - welcome to the community! > > Derek > > P.S. "Do I have to concern myself with the test cookie idea? I have > no idea what this is... please enlighten me! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
