On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Phil Mocek <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:46:46AM +0800, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
>> 2) If you would stop changing the subject line of discussions every >> time you respond, that would be just dandy, too. Rapid-fire subject >> changes don't help anyone keep track of what is going on. > > I didn't do that. I only change the subject line when the topic of > discussion changes. It would be nice if more other people did as well. Search the archives. You have posted 14 messages since you joined django-users. By my quick count, of those 14 messages, at least 7 of them have changed the subject of the thread. Now compare your activity to any other active mailing list participant. On top of that - In most of those cases, you haven't been changing the subject of conversation - you've been changing the subject to improve the wording. I will accept that in each case, your revised subject has been an improvement - but you haven't been changing the topic in any sort of substantial way, and subject changes for the sake of subject changes don't improve anyones mailing list experience. > When someone here suggested that I had been insulting, I acknowledged > that his misperception was a common one -- so common, in fact, that one > of the fathers of the free software movement wrote a whole section of I have to interrupt here. ESR didn't start the Free Software movement. RMS did. ESR started the Open Source movement, and volumes have been written about the difference between the two. I don't know if this was a slip in the tongue (like, say, a recent slip of mine where I referred to localhost as a hostname, rather than an address), but just in case it wasn't - the free/open distinction is a hot button issue with some people, and you would be well served to keep the distinction clear. > The "correct response" can only be repeated so many times before it > makes sense for people to write down all the things that people keep > asking and implore them to read it before posting their own question. > We call this a FAQ. Is it rude to point people to the FAQ when they > skipped over it and asked the same question that has been asked and > answered hundreds of times? You appear to be under the mistaken impression that either: * I'm new to teh internets, * I'm new to Django, * I'm new to supporting open source projects, or * I'm new to answering questions on mailing lists. I'd like to dispel these impressions. I got my first email address in 1993. I was reading Slashdot back when it was called Chips and Dips. I was a Net veteran when CatB was breaking news. I've been a core developer on Django for over 3 years. In that time, I've made almost 1300 posts to django-users, plus another 1000 to django-developers. I am well aware of what a FAQ is for. I'm well aware of mailing list etiquette. I'm also well aware of the local conventions that the Django community has had for the 3 years before you joined us. > Local customs trump any general forms of > etiquette, and the same holds true on mailing lists. Exactly. And the local customs are: 1) Be friendly and courteous to all, 2) Lead by example, not by appeal to authority, 3) Don't change the subject line every time you post > If anything goes > here and that's the way people want it, then I'd be way out of line to > continue to lobby for tightening things up. I'm not sure what has given you the impression that "anything goes". The exact opposite is true. As I said last time, we (the Django Core) place a high premium on civility. We place a high premium on effective communication. However, not all people coming to django-users for the first time are necessarily on the same page. Fact of the internet: Newbies often ask bad questions. Fact of human behaviour: Chastising people and pointing them at a multiple page document about asking questions isn't an effective way to change that behaviour. Positive reinforcement is a lot more effective. Compare and contrast: Q: My Django is broken! Why doesn't it work? A1: "Thats a very bad question. Please see <link> for how to ask better questions" A2: "Django seems to work fine for myself, and a large number of my friends. Perhaps if you provided a specific examples - say, a sequence of commands that isn't working the way you expect - we might be able to assist you." I have many years experience to demonstrate that A2 works a lot better than A1. It doesn't chastise - it provides a course of action, provides the possibility of a resolution. And if they follow through on the hint, they will see that a specific, detailed question yields answers, whereas generic ranting does not. With luck, they will learn from the experience, and do better next time. At a meta level, when someone complains that you're being rude, telling them that they are wrong because ESR says so doesn't help matters, and it's the point at which I step in. Rudeness will not be tolerated on django-users, or any other official Django forum. I have no desire to engage in a month long "what is the correct behaviour on a mailing list" thread. I prefer to lead by example, not by appeal to authority. All I can ask of you is that when in Rome, do as the Romans do (the polite Romans, anyway). Welcome to Rome. :-) Yours Russ Magee %-) --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
