Hi Behcet, > -----Original Message----- > From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:31 AM > To: Templin, Fred L > Cc: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave); Brian Haberman; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > > Hi Fred, > > Thanks for clarifying. > > We can maybe add your solution to the bunch classified as Mobile IP > based approach, even though it does not require client software in the > MN.
To clarify, AERO does require the MN to run a lightweight app. The app is very similar in principle to OpenVPN, which may in the long run be a suitable integration platform for the AERO Client function. Thanks - Fred [email protected] > We have a PMIP based solution and a routing based solution. > All of these I think, form a good basis to work on in dmm. > > My 2 cents. > > Regards, > > Behcet > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Templin, Fred L > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Behcet, > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:[email protected]] > >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:57 PM > >> To: Templin, Fred L > >> Cc: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave); Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> > >> I thought you said in your presentation that this draft is being > >> AD-sponsored or going thru ISE? > > > > I think maybe you are talking about RFC6706, which was AD sponsored. > > The (bis) has not been picked up by an AD sponsor nor a working group > > yet, and is IMHO too far along in its evolution to fall back and take > > it down the ISE path now. So, wg item would seem like a suitable path. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > [email protected] > > > >> Regards, > >> > >> Behcet > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hi Behcet, > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 2:08 PM > >> >> To: Templin, Fred L > >> >> Cc: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave); Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> >> > >> >> Isn't AERO becoming an RFC already? > >> > > >> > We already have RFC6706 as an experimental RFC, but I am working > >> > on a (bis) that will obsolete that: > >> > > >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-aerolink/ > >> > > >> > The (bis) does not currently have a wg home, so I thought I would > >> > check to see if dmm would be a good home for it. > >> > > >> > Thanks - Fred > >> > [email protected] > >> > > >> >> Regards, > >> >> > >> >> Behcet > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Templin, Fred L > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > Hi Sri, > >> >> > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 1:40 PM > >> >> >> To: Templin, Fred L; Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hi Fred, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Or, have IPv4 built-in from the onset for free; wouldn't that be > >> >> >> > better? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Cannot say without understanding the solution approach and the needed > >> >> >> effort. But, I guess with AERO, you have some effort in mind. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have code that, while not pretty, is astonishingly simple. > >> >> > I should be able to release that very soon. > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks - Fred > >> >> > [email protected] > >> >> > > >> >> >> Any case, its WG/Chairs/AD call, but works for me. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> Sri > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 6/19/14 1:34 PM, "Templin, Fred L" <[email protected]> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Sri, > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> >> From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 1:32 PM > >> >> >> >> To: Templin, Fred L; Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Hi Fred, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Ack on the AERO capability. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >OK. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> I have come to the conclusion that I have to deal with IPv4 for > >> >> >> >> the rest > >> >> >> >> of my career (assuming some left). Surely, some day in 2016 is > >> >> >> >> not some > >> >> >> >> thing that I'm looking at. My point is to limit the solution > >> >> >> >> scope and > >> >> >> >>if > >> >> >> >> it happens that DMM solution is immensely successful, we can > >> >> >> >> introduce > >> >> >> >> IPv4 interfaces in phases. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Or, have IPv4 built-in from the onset for free; wouldn't that > >> >> >> >be better? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Thanks - Fred > >> >> >> >[email protected] > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> >> Sri > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 6/19/14 12:54 PM, "Templin, Fred L" <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >>wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Hi Sri, > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >I will just repeat that AERO works equally well on IPv4-only, > >> >> >> >> >IPv6-only > >> >> >> >> >and dual-stacked access networks. This means that it can address > >> >> >> >> >real > >> >> >> >> >world use cases today that cannot be addressed by other > >> >> >> >> >mechanisms. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >As to schedule, who can truly say when IPv4 will be totally gone > >> >> >> >> >from > >> >> >> >> >all access networks? 2016 is just a date on a calendar; we have > >> >> >> >> >been > >> >> >> >> >waiting for IPv6 to fully replace IPv4 since about 1994, and > >> >> >> >> >AFAICT > >> >> >> >> >it still hasn't happened. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Thanks - Fred > >> >> >> >> >[email protected] > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> >> >> From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:33 PM > >> >> >> >> >> To: Templin, Fred L; Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Hi Fred, > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> The DMM WG is still discussing PS and the related issues. By > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >>time we > >> >> >> >> >> adopt a solution and complete the work, we will surely be in > >> >> >> >> >> 2016. > >> >> >> >>So, > >> >> >> >> >>is > >> >> >> >> >> it not safer to raise the bar and limit certain interfaces to > >> >> >> >>IPv6-only > >> >> >> >> >>? > >> >> >> >> >> I'm not arguing against adding any support for IPv4, but IMO > >> >> >> >> >> the bar > >> >> >> >> >> should be high. We can certainly support all possible types of > >> >> >> >>networks, > >> >> >> >> >> IPv4-only transport, IPv4-only user plane, and IPv4-only > >> >> >> >> >> services. > >> >> >> >>But, > >> >> >> >> >> looking at our current pace and doing some extrapolation, its > >> >> >> >> >> safe to > >> >> >> >> >>say > >> >> >> >> >> we will bake this for a long time and so limiting the work > >> >> >> >> >> scope IMO > >> >> >> >> >> helps. But, this is just my opinion/comment and personally > >> >> >> >> >> don't > >> >> >> >>care if > >> >> >> >> >> some one wants to do the work and the chairs/AD/WG agree with > >> >> >> >> >> it. > >> >> >> >>Also, > >> >> >> >> >>I > >> >> >> >> >> do not know yet how much of the solution work will really be > >> >> >> >>IP-version > >> >> >> >> >> dependent. Mostly some network interfaces and there IPv6 > >> >> >> >> >> possibly is > >> >> >> >>a > >> >> >> >> >> safe assumption. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> >> >> Sri > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On 6/19/14 11:30 AM, "Templin, Fred L" > >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >> >>wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Sri, > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> >> >> >> From: dmm [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sri > >> >> >> >>Gundavelli > >> >> >> >> >> >>(sgundave) > >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:20 AM > >> >> >> >> >> >> To: Brian Haberman; [email protected] > >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in github.. > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Agree. We should ensure the base solution supports IPv6 > >> >> >> >> >> >> transport > >> >> >> >>and > >> >> >> >> >> >>user > >> >> >> >> >> >> sessions. Optionally, support for IPv4 can be allowed on > >> >> >> >> >> >> certain > >> >> >> >> >> >> interfaces, but clearly should not deal with IPv4, NAT's or > >> >> >> >> >> >> allow > >> >> >> >> >> >> IPv4-only solutions. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >I don't understand that. In my enterprise, I have IPv4-only > >> >> >> >> >> >wireless > >> >> >> >> >> >access points yet there are IPv6 services within the > >> >> >> >> >> >enterprise. > >> >> >> >>When > >> >> >> >> >> >I switch over to 4G wireless, I again get IPv4-only access > >> >> >> >> >> >but again > >> >> >> >> >> >there are IPv6 services within the enterprise. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >If the mobility management mechanism supports IPv6 over IPv4 > >> >> >> >>tunneling > >> >> >> >> >> >(possibly including NATs in the path), then the use case is > >> >> >> >>satisfied; > >> >> >> >> >> >otherwise, the use case is not satisfied. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Thanks - Fred > >> >> >> >> >> >[email protected] > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> >> >> >> Sri > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> On 6/18/14 8:43 AM, "Brian Haberman" > >> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >> >>wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Fred, > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >On 6/18/14 11:25 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Jouni, > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Jouni Korhonen [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 3:00 AM > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> To: Templin, Fred L; [email protected] > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft charter text updates in > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> github.. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Fred, > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> It is true IPv4 is there (and will be for a long time). > >> >> >> >>Although > >> >> >> >> >>the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> charter does emphasize IPv6 as the base solution it > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> does not > >> >> >> >> >> >>prohibit > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> adding IPv4 support. It is just we can accept an > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> IPv6-only > >> >> >> >> >>solution > >> >> >> >> >> >>as > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>a > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> valid & complete solution from DMM point of view. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> However, a solution that works equally well whether the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> access > >> >> >> >> >> >>networks > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> are IPv6-only, dual-stack, or IPv4-only has clear > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> advantages in > >> >> >> >> >>terms > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> of near-term deployment in real networks. Therefore, I > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> think > >> >> >> >>the > >> >> >> >> >> >>charter > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> is currently saying _too much_. My new proposal is > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> simply to > >> >> >> >> >>strike > >> >> >> >> >> >>the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> following two sentences: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "DMM solutions are primarily targeted at IPv6 > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> deployments and > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> should not be required to support IPv4, specifically > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> >>situations > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> where private IPv4 addresses and/or NATs are used. > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> IPv6 is > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> assumed to be present in both the mobile host/router > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> and the > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> access networks." > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >The above has been a part of the DMM charter for a long > >> >> >> >> >> >> >time. > >> >> >> >> >>Taking > >> >> >> >> >> >>it > >> >> >> >> >> >> >out would appear to be opening the door for IPv4-only > >> >> >> >> >> >> >solutions. > >> >> >> >> My > >> >> >> >> >> >> >assessment of the winds within the community is that > >> >> >> >> >> >> >people are > >> >> >> >>not > >> >> >> >> >> >> >interested in new protocols for IPv4. > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Just my opinion... > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Brian > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> >> >> dmm mailing list > >> >> >> >> >> >> [email protected] > >> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > dmm mailing list > >> >> > [email protected] > >> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
