On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 05:46:03PM -0500, William C Vaughan wrote: > I don't know specifically about Devuan porting to to the iPhone, but it > would be marvelous if some sort of Linux could be ported to that hardware.
It might be easier to start with Android devices -- at least they are supposed to be rootable so you can install other OSs. Yes, I know about cyanogenmod. But I'd like a real Linux on my tablet and phone. It would require some arcane knowledge about Android boot procedures -- just to get it onto the hardware, a window manager that knows about touch screens as being different from mouses, and for the phones, relatively high-level but usable device drivers for the phone hardware. I have faith in the free-software community -- Usable user-level software that operates well with the touch interface will appear when this base is ready. > My main gripe with closed OS devices like Apple productions is that > eventually, regardless of the quality of the hardware, the company > withdraws OS support and updates. I have a 10 year old MacBook Pro which > still functions just fine, but soon after Jobs passed Apple withdrew all OS > support - security patches and other updates. I wiped out OSX and > installed LinuxMint on it, and with a few tweaks like fan cooling software, > everything works just fine. I'm guessing I'll get at least another couple > of years of use on it. Apple will follow similar patterns with iOS > devices, forcing purchase of new hardware every 3 years or so. Put a slim > version of Linux on a 3 year old iPhone/iPad and voila, another few years > of use. But the Appke "computers" are a lot freer than the iOS devices. It's the iOS devices (such as the iPhones you started your message with) that are the real problem. > Now if they'd just revive replaceable batteries .... Anyway, I'm a > lurker on this list and wish you the best in pursuing what might just prove > to be a fine Linux fork. You *were* a lurker on this list. You just posted. > I just hope internal fighting can be minimized. > Cheers! > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 4:14 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Send Dng mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Dng digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Franco Lanza) > > 2. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Anto) > > 3. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Anto) > > 4. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Steve Litt) > > 5. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Apollia) > > 6. Pie in the sky: Devuan on nonfree phones and tablets > > (Hendrik Boom) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 21:26:42 +0200 > > From: Franco Lanza <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > I think we can draw a line in this discussion this way: > > > > Daniel will implement the installer in the way he was saying, > > adding non-free firmwares limited to the ones that if missed are > > blocking for the installer ( so, nothing more than few firmwares for > > things like network cards or wifi, for example ), with the choice for > > the user to select them but disabled by default, and making the user > > knowing that he is selecting a non-free firmware. > > > > This will be our default installer. > > > > When our infrastructure will use that installer to build the iso images, > > a script will also build another image with all those non-free firmware > > removed, and this will be our "free" image. > > > > Both will be marked as "official", and the name of the generated isos > > will be something like devuan-jessie-...-full.iso and > > devuan-jessie-...-free.iso > > > > This way i hope we will make all happy. > > > > > > -- > > > > Franco (nextime) Lanza > > Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy > > SIP://[email protected] > > web: http://www.nexlab.net > > > > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org > > you can download my public key at: > > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers > > Key ID = D6132D50 > > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 > > ----------------------------------- > > echo > > 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq > > | dc > > ----------------------------------- > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: signature.asc > > Type: application/pgp-signature > > Size: 181 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: < > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20150604/072f1a55/attachment.sig > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:31:29 +0200 > > From: Anto <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > > > On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > > > . > > > <snip> > > > . > > > > > > Imagine the difference... > > > > > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and > > > bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better > > > made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your > > > network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation > > > *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through > > > exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it > > > on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, and the install goes > > > perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good as you thought. > > > > > > Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users. > > > > > > SteveT > > > > > > Steve Litt > > > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > > > > > > > Hello Steve, > > > > According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it, the > > story is a bit different... > > > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and > > bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better > > made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your > > network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation > > *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through > > exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it on > > the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The installer gives you the > > option to choose the firmware from the available list or abort the > > installation. As you trust the firmware, you select it. If that would be > > proprietary firmware, you will be given a license agreement to accept or > > reject it (to abort the installation). After you read (assuming you have > > time) and accept the license agreement, the install goes perfectly. > > Devuan was every bit as good as you thought. > > > > I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that. Especially > > on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as what Windows > > does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than using Windows). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Anto > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:35:13 +0200 > > From: Anto <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > > > > On 04/06/15 21:31, Anto wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote: > > >> > > >> . > > >> <snip> > > >> . > > >> > > >> Imagine the difference... > > >> > > >> You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and > > >> bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better > > >> made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your > > >> network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation > > >> *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through > > >> exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it > > >> on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, and the install goes > > >> perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good as you thought. > > >> > > >> Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users. > > >> > > >> SteveT > > >> > > >> Steve Litt > > >> June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence > > >> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > > >> > > > > > > Hello Steve, > > > > > > According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it, > > > the story is a bit different... > > > > > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and > > > bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and > > > better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells > > > you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the > > > documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked > > > you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different > > > computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The > > > installer gives you the option to choose the firmware from the > > > available list or abort the installation. As you trust the firmware, > > > you select it. If that would be proprietary firmware, you will be > > > given a license agreement to accept or reject it (to abort the > > > installation). After you read (assuming you have time) and accept the > > > license agreement, the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit as > > > good as you thought. > > > > > > I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that. > > > Especially on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as > > > what Windows does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than > > > using Windows). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Anto > > > > > > > Off topic. > > > > I am not sure why my Thunderbird does not strike-through this sentence: > > *Fortunately for you, the documentation *screamed* that you might need > > nonfree firmware, walked you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you > > use a different computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try > > again,*. So my email looks strange. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 15:38:00 -0400 > > From: Steve Litt <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:31:29 +0200 > > Anto <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > > > > > . > > > > <snip> > > > > . > > > > > > > > Imagine the difference... > > > > > > > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot > > > > and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler > > > > and better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it > > > > tells you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, > > > > the documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, > > > > walked you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a > > > > different computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try > > > > again, and the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good > > > > as you thought. > > > > > > > > Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users. > > > > > > > > SteveT > > > > > > > > Steve Litt > > > > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > > > > > > > > > > Hello Steve, > > > > > > According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it, > > > the story is a bit different... > > > > > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot > > > and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and > > > better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells > > > you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the > > > documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked > > > you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different > > > computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The > > > installer gives you the option to choose the firmware from the > > > available list or abort the installation. As you trust the firmware, > > > you select it. If that would be proprietary firmware, you will be > > > given a license agreement to accept or reject it (to abort the > > > installation). After you read (assuming you have time) and accept the > > > license agreement, the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit > > > as good as you thought. > > > > > > I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that. > > > Especially on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as > > > what Windows does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than > > > using Windows). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Anto > > > > Yes. > > > > The proprietary firmware you choose will look the same as Windows. One > > tiny part of your $450 laptop will be nonfree, as opposed to the entire > > OS. The perfect is the enemy of the good. > > > > It would be cool if the list you mentioned could tell whether each > > firmware was free or not, so you could use that as part of your > > decision. > > > > SteveT > > > > Steve Litt > > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 16:20:33 -0400 > > From: Apollia <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers > > Message-ID: > > < > > cabu-1g-r4sio0vihkttkh1mh9rmvtiwhdojhtvu1e8xnsjq...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Franco Lanza <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think we can draw a line in this discussion this way: > > > > > > Daniel will implement the installer in the way he was saying, > > > adding non-free firmwares limited to the ones that if missed are > > > blocking for the installer ( so, nothing more than few firmwares for > > > things like network cards or wifi, for example ), with the choice for > > > the user to select them but disabled by default, and making the user > > > knowing that he is selecting a non-free firmware. > > > > > > This will be our default installer. > > > > > > When our infrastructure will use that installer to build the iso images, > > > a script will also build another image with all those non-free firmware > > > removed, and this will be our "free" image. > > > > > > Both will be marked as "official", and the name of the generated isos > > > will be something like devuan-jessie-...-full.iso and > > > devuan-jessie-...-free.iso > > > > > > This way i hope we will make all happy. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Franco (nextime) Lanza > > > Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy > > > SIP://[email protected] > > > web: http://www.nexlab.net > > > > > > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org > > > you can download my public key at: > > > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers > > > Key ID = D6132D50 > > > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 > > > ----------------------------------- > > > echo > > > > > 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq > > > | dc > > > ----------------------------------- > > > > > > > Sounds good to me! > > > > The only thing I'd change is the names of the ISOs, since "full" vs. "free" > > might imply to some people that the "free" version is incomplete and > > inferior to the "full" version. > > > > I would prefer to imply that the non-libre version is the flawed inferior > > version. > > > > So, maybe names like: > > > > devuan-jessie-...-nonfree-nonlibre.iso > > and > > devuan-jessie-...-freelibre.iso > > > > > > I definitely agree with having both versions, even though I try to avoid > > anything non-libre. > > > > I would love to switch to purely libre hardware if I had the money, but, I > > don't, and most people in the world might not either, judging by this page: > > http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats > > > > So, I definitely think it's best for Devuan to be installable on as wide a > > variety of hardware as possible. > > > > > > I would find it particularly amusing if it were possible to install Devuan > > on an iPhone. :-) Or anything else the average person wouldn't expect > > Linux to work on. > > > > Someone gave me an iPhone 4S a few years ago in the hope that I would use > > it to make a living writing proprietary software. Since I wasn't willing > > to do that, it's not much use to me, so, maybe I'll experiment with trying > > to get Devuan to work on it someday. :-) (Unless I hear that it's totally > > unfeasible.) > > > > Probably just a daydream, at least for now, because I have so many other > > things I need to get done at the moment, and also because it's very likely > > beyond my current skills. I haven't yet even attempted to build _any_ > > Linux from scratch yet, though I still intend to someday. > > > > Best wishes, > > Apollia > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20150604/cb552acb/attachment.html > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 17:14:04 -0400 > > From: Hendrik Boom <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [Dng] Pie in the sky: Devuan on nonfree phones and tablets > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 04:20:33PM -0400, Apollia wrote: > > > > > > I would find it particularly amusing if it were possible to install > > Devuan > > > on an iPhone. :-) Or anything else the average person wouldn't expect > > > Linux to work on. > > > > > > Someone gave me an iPhone 4S a few years ago in the hope that I would use > > > it to make a living writing proprietary software. Since I wasn't willing > > > to do that, it's not much use to me, so, maybe I'll experiment with > > trying > > > to get Devuan to work on it someday. :-) (Unless I hear that it's > > totally > > > unfeasible.) > > > > I would *love* to replace Android with Devuan on my ASUS Transformer > > tablet, initially as dual-boot until I manage to migrate completely. > > > > Pie in the sky, for now. > > > > -- hendrik > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dng mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Dng Digest, Vol 9, Issue 21 > > ********************************** > > > > > > -- > Move from rim to hub; know the wheel. - G. Buddha > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
