On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 12:06:59PM -0700, James Powell wrote: > It's not just that, but why are there so many broken down packages? -bin, > -dev, -meta, -src, -lib, -doc, etc. my God do we need this many? Many > distributions use just one all inclusive package to avoid problems unless its > a temporary dependency build time only. Yes, I'd say it broken, far worse > though that one can realize, and far confusing to some people as well. > > If you run "./configure && make && make install" you get an all inclusive > package. That's in every handbook and textbook I've read too. > > This structured, repurposed, and tiered package system is utter nonsense. > There's packages that install nothing but a symlink for crying out loud! > > What .deb packages need is simplification, not more convulsion to muck things > up and complicate things worse for new uses.
That kind of complexity is usually a sign that there are some missing concepts, or that essential features have been placed in the wrong place. It's maybe time for a comprehensie discussion on what a packaging system *ought* to do. For a later release, of course, not Devuan 1. -- hendrik > ________________________________ > From: T.J. Duchene<mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: 7/17/2015 11:53 AM > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DNG] [email protected] > > KatolaZ: > > > > > You guys talk about supporting half a dozen init systems like it > > > > was similar to providing half a dozen different editors, which > > > > believe me is not quite the case. > > hendrik: > > > You're arguing for setting up the framework that makes it possible, > > rather than to do the heavy lifting. It would also provide those who > > want to make various package-maintainers a path to follow to make > > their packages suitable for multiple inits, in case they whould > > choose to do so. > > > > Hi, guys! Just my two cents! > > > Just to be clear, before I say anything else, I am not talking about > Devuan 1. That's set in stone. As far as the future, I personally > think that init freedom/flexibility is something that really needs to > be evaluated, so that Devuan does not fall into the same mono-culture > trap that Debian has. One of Devuan's key concerns should be the > avoidance of mono-culture thinking. > > I actually read somewhere that Ubuntu is already planning on abandoning > the Deb format in favor of something new. I wasn't too thrilled with > the idea at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I am > convinced that something has to change. Ian Murdoch who > founded Debian, advocated changing the way things are done (when he > started Progeny, but because he wasn't the head of Debian he was > basically ignored). Debian packaging practices NEED to change as needs > change, and they haven't. Even RedHat has changed their packaging more > than Debian. > > It was packaging that led to Debian's systemd versus S5 fracas > in the first place. Being a programmer and having packaged software for > both Debian and RedHat style Linuxes, I see absolutely no reason why it > is not technically feasible to support multiple init systems. Even if > you know how to man-handle APT, there are too many longstanding issues > in Debian packaging that never get any attention at all, because the > vast majority of the Debian developers always use Sid. There are no > delta support. There are no (or very few) alternative package chains. > There are no really reliable methods of rollback for a bad package. > > One thing that drives me crazy is that you cannot pull updated > source code to use on Debian Stable from the other Debian branches for > a local apt-build without ridiculously convoluted configuration > (if it works at all). It's actually the lack of any real change in the > packaging that has started me looking at other Linuxes for a > replacement. > > Debian packaging has become to rigid and inflexible. > > Thanks! See you all soon =) > T.J. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
