Linux mint mate desktop as far as I know works without systemd. On Apr 24, 2016 3:52 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
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Gtk Development (aitor_czr) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:14:37 -0400 > From: Steve Litt <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:12:18 +0300 > Mitt Green <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I suppose, he meant that there's a fine line between > > a window manager and a DE sometimes. > > Thanks Mitt, > > What I really meant is there's a very fuzzy line. As I stated before, a > spectrum. > > > EDE (Equinox Desktop Environment) includes only a > > window manager and a panel, as far as I know. > > Some window managers provide panel (bar) too, think Fluxbox, > > Blackbox, dwm and its remakes, i3, wmii. FVWM lets you make your own > > panels and what people now call widgets. > > > LXDE, on the other hand, has its own panel, file manager, > > task manager, appearance settings programme, > > desktop and session. So, 'tis an environment definitely. > > So, if I took dwm, packaged it with the fbpanel panel, an fbpanel > config tool, the Rox Filer file manager, the scrot screenshot utility, > the dmenu app-selector, Edward's Network Tool (forgot its current name), > and a custom GUI app, made by me, that acquires settings from the user > and recompiled dwm accordingly (dwm must be recompiled to be > configured), and a special menu leading to all these addons, and name > the whole thing GammaRay, then GammaRay is a DE using dwm as its WM? > > If that's your definition, then there is indeed a clear line of > demarcation. And that well may be the definition. > > But in everyday life, that's not how most people define them. How often > do you hear Xfce being called a "window manager"? Happens all the time. > LXDE and IceWM have pretty much identical user interfaces and > functionalities, except LXDE has a few more peripheral utilities. If > IceWM chose to give a separate name to its window manager component (the > component that manages and decorates windows), then IceWM would be > considered a DE, whereas because of its lightweightness and the fact > that it doesn't give a separate name to its window manager component > (and perhaps its window manager component isn't a distinct module), > I've seen it uniformly called a "window manager." > > If one defines a window manager as the thing that decorates and > controls windows, and a desktop environment as a group of software > containing and interacting with a distinct, thin-interfaced window > manager module, then most X interfaces are DEs. Heck, even Openbox > ships with a system menu and an (incomplete) configuration GUI. With > the definitions declared at the top of this paragraph, some window > managers are surrounded by more software than others, and they're almost > uniformly DEs, because a pure WM would be useless to most folks. > > But the REAL problem is that it seems like each person has his own > definition of WM and DE. Which means when they ask questions, you must > preface the discussion by their querying their definition. In this > thread, does Xfce qualify? Does LXDE? Openbox? Dwm? We have to go back > to the OP to find out. I find a vocabulary leading to that level of > ambiguity unsettling. > > I wish we lived in a world with a single name for both concepts. I use > wm/de or wmde a lot. Perhaps TLGUI (Top Level Graphical User > Interface). Because in 95% of interactions, it would save time and > garner clarity if a person said "I want a TLGUI that's lightweight, but > it's got to have a panel and a GUI config program." > > This has very little to do with Devuan or systemd, so it's not > something to get worked up about. It's just something to think about. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century > http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:17:06 -0400 > From: Steve Litt <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:38:04 +0100 > Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Steve Litt writes: > > > I've never been afraid of sounding ignorant, especially when I'm > > > right. > > > > Uhm. > > > > > One more thing: I think this whole wm/de thing is a useless > > > distinction that never should have been made. > > > > I suppose I count as an old fart, because I was around twenty-plus > > years ago, when it was made. > > > > So do you want a history lesson, or do you want to go on just being > > right? > > I'm not sure the preceding sentence yields a mutual exclusivity, but > yes, I really would like that history lesson, as this is something that > has bothered me for a long time. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century > http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:43:55 +0300 > From: Mitt Green <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Steve Litt wrote: > > > So, if I took dwm, packaged it with the fbpanel > > panel, an fbpanel config tool, > > Why would you use fbpanel with dwm though, > the default bar is pretty hackable. Certainly, if > you need a window list, then why not, but since > dwm is a tiling window manager by default > (and most use this mode), your windows won't > be lost. > > > the Rox Filer file manager, the scrot screenshot > > utility, the dmenu app-selector, Edward's Network > > Tool (forgot its current name), > > ENT then! > > > and a custom GUI app, made by me, that acquires > > settings from the user and recompiled dwm > > accordingly > > hehe, why would a dwm user need a GUI for this > > > (dwm must be recompiled to be configured), and > > a special menu leading to all these addons, and name > > the whole thing GammaRay, then GammaRay is a DE using > dwm as its WM? > > No, it would be dwm with all these shenanigans. > I mean, if a project (one project) would make these > utilities, then you can call it a desktop environment. > > [...] > > > How often do you hear Xfce being called a > > "window manager"? > > Have never heard. Because it's a desktop environment, > and Xfwm is its window manager. Xfce project > develops a panel, a desktop, a window manager, > a text editor, an archive manager, a power manager, > a session and all the components share a configuration > system, that is also made by them. > > > LXDE and IceWM have pretty much identical user > > interfaces and functionalities, except LXDE has a few > > more peripheral utilities. > > And that is what makes it a DE. > > [...] > > > Heck, even Openbox ships with a system menu and an > > (incomplete) configuration GUI. > > Having a graphic configuration tool still doesn't > make a window manager a desktop environment. > Many have - Flux-/Black-/Openbox, FVWM, > Jaysus, even Xfwm and Metacity do, too. > > > In this thread, does Xfce qualify? Does LXDE? > > Openbox? Dwm? > > Xfce - a DE. LXDE - a DE. Openbox - a WM. dwm > - a WM. > > > It's just something to think about. > > It doesn't even matter. > > / Mitt > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 20:46:02 +0200 > From: Didier Kryn <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Le 24/04/2016 20:17, Steve Litt a écrit : > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:38:04 +0100 > > Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Steve Litt writes: > >>> I've never been afraid of sounding ignorant, especially when I'm > >>> right. > >> Uhm. > >> > >>> One more thing: I think this whole wm/de thing is a useless > >>> distinction that never should have been made. > >> I suppose I count as an old fart, because I was around twenty-plus > >> years ago, when it was made. > >> > >> So do you want a history lesson, or do you want to go on just being > >> right? > > I'm not sure the preceding sentence yields a mutual exclusivity, but > > yes, I really would like that history lesson, as this is something that > > has bothered me for a long time. > > > > SteveT > > > > I would say that the minimal DE is startx, others feature at least > some menu and/or panel; all need a window manager (actually Xwindow > requires a window manager) and all support the concept of a session with > a startup and a termination. At least that's how I see how the concepts > pile up; am I wrong? > > Didier > > Didier > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:02:41 -0400 > From: Haines Brown <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 03:41:51PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote: > > > When you say installed debootstrap on a new disk, you mean the host > > OS? What architecture is the host and the 'target' disk, are they > > different? > > Sorry I was not clearer. I meant debootstrap installed a base system on > a new disk. > > # debootstrap --no-check-gpg jessie /mnt/debinst \ > https://packages.devuan.org/devuan > > The host, my currently running machine, runs debootstrap, targetting a > new partitioned disk mounted on /mnt/debinst. I'm assuming debootstrap > can be run anywhere, and it installs a base system wherever it is told > to do it. Years ago I did cross installations, but the process has > gotten a lot more complicated. > > Haines Brown > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:37:24 +0200 > From: parazyd <[email protected]> > To: Haines Brown <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key > Message-ID: <20160424193724.GA19408@hansolo> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016, Haines Brown wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 03:41:51PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote: > > > > > When you say installed debootstrap on a new disk, you mean the host > > > OS? What architecture is the host and the 'target' disk, are they > > > different? > > > > Sorry I was not clearer. I meant debootstrap installed a base system on > > a new disk. > > > > # debootstrap --no-check-gpg jessie /mnt/debinst \ > > https://packages.devuan.org/devuan > > > > The host, my currently running machine, runs debootstrap, targetting a > > new partitioned disk mounted on /mnt/debinst. I'm assuming debootstrap > > can be run anywhere, and it installs a base system wherever it is told > > to do it. Years ago I did cross installations, but the process has > > gotten a lot more complicated. > > Yes, debootstrap works on any system. Note that if you wish to bootstrap > devuan systems, use devuan's debootstrap (which was fixed): > https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ > > Also, for next steps, I'd recommend you to see how the ARM SDK works, > particularly the devuan profile: > > https://git.devuan.org/devuan/arm-sdk/blob/master/arm/profiles/common-devuan > > -- > ~ parazyd > 6CB4 6C63 641D B1F1 F811 5B3A BB5E 2E35 B92E 373E > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 819 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20160424/0894b0e7/attachment.sig > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:51:22 +0200 > From: aitor_czr <[email protected]> > To: Boruch Baum <[email protected]>, Edward Bartolo > <[email protected]>, dng <[email protected]> > Subject: [DNG] Gtk Development > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Hi all, > > Here you are an example about how to build a gtkmm application using cmake: > > www.gnuinos.org/PrintPDF > > This is the same example as: > > > https://developer.gnome.org/gtkmm-tutorial/3.20/gtkmm-tutorial.html#sec-printing-example > > including some changes in the code. I'll explain them later. > > The application prints the content of the window to a pdf document. > > @Edward: > > Have a look at the code of mainwindow.cpp. You can include the .xml code > generated by glade in a .cpp file. > > Nonetheless, i'm also avoiding the use of GtkBuilder in Simple-Netaid, > like you. > > Cheers, > > Aitor. > > P.D.- How to build: > mkdir build > cd build > cmake ../ > make > > You need to install gtkmm, cairomm, pangomm... > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20160424/e753df04/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Dng Digest, Vol 19, Issue 76 > *********************************** >
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