On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 14:47:40 +0100, John wrote in message <[email protected]>:
> On 23/11/17 12:28, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > ..the kernel guys has this far proven more trustworthy, IME. > > Number of times unknown third parties have inserted bad code into the > linux kernel: 1. ..only once? Don't forget the runtime backdoor attacks. > Number of times that has happened to systemd: 0 ..you forget a lot of us (Devuan) have experienced attack like events _by_ systemd. Which is the greater worry for us here. > > ..but I agree there's a potential right there too, and I see you > > systemd guys may have found ways to defeat the kernel guys, or > > e.g. the Tor project. > > If you systemd guys turn out to be the good guys, you become > > part of my back-up plan. > > I am not a systemd guy. There's more of my code (i.e. almost none) > in the Linux kernel than there is in systemd (i.e. none). ..I judge people by the ramifications of their actions. ;o) ..aaand, I believe we agreed I would test your perl script rather than have you test my patience. ;o) > > ..clearly, one of our sides (systemd vs Devuan/Tor/kernel/etc) > > are on the right side and the other side is on the wrong side. > > Those "sides" do not exist in the form you claim. ..not formally, agreed, bad guys (too) often do their things informally to e.g. evade detection. > systemd exists > only for linux and depends on features written by the "linux guys". ..aye, such naïvite on our part merely warrants a few more backup plans prepping to drop Linux for hurd, *bsd Unix etc, it's even possible "inside" Debian. > There is no adversarial relationship between systemd and the kernel. ..ok, tytso and Linus has also vented on their experiences with that relationship. ;o) > >> Why the comparison with Samba and wine? You have the source code > >> for systemd available. > > ..aye. And then we have the good old Ken Thompson style compiler > > hacks and 33 years of water under the bridge to come up with even > > better hacks... > > So you're positing a conspiracy that includes the gcc team as well as > systemd. ..only the latter, but I agree there's a potential of at least infiltration in the former team. > If the gcc team was introducing "on trusting trust" style > backdoors into gcc why would they attack systemd instead of the > kernel? ..many ways to skin that cat, I don't neccesarily see attacks on systemd as bad, because my own experience with systemd and pulseaudio is pretty bad. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
