On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 09:17:26PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > Hi Dario, Adam, list, > > Adam Borowski writes: > > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 06:37:44PM +0200, Dario Niedermann wrote: > >> `date` suddenly tells the time in 12-hour format, regardless of $TZ > >> (be it empty or 'Europe/<anything>'). > >> > >> Who told it to do that? I certainly didn't. > >> > >> I had already noticed this before the recent switch to DST. > > > > I bet your locale is set to en_US. > > > > This setting is used for two unrelated things: > > * the default locale for anyone who wants English and doesn't live in > > Britfain or Down Under. > > * inhabitants of a silly land to the left of a pond to the left of Europe > > > > The latter have weird customs like a medieval system of measurements, units > > that differ on dry-vs-liquid-vs-slightly-moist, or different distances by > > the same name on air vs land vs survey measurements. > > > > And, also, a discontinuous system of time with four non-monotonic segments > > and ambiguous endpoints; marked with "am" and "pm". > > Actually, I believe interpretation of the endpoints is locale dependent, > so your 12am might be someone else's 0pm. Or was that 0am the next day? > This kind of confusion made me use a 24-hour clock (aka "military time).
I reset my personal day when I go to sleep at night. So when I'm a night owl I'll cheerfully use times like 23:00, 24:00, 25:00 ..., all treated as part of the same day. -- hendrik > > # While I'm "ranting", I also mightily dislike times for events show in > # local timezones. Even with the timezone indication I'm clueless more > # often than not and DST makes matter even worse. Why can't organizers > # simply use UTC? That one everyone only needs to know the conversion > # to their own timezone rather than being aware of 24 timezones and the > # various DST idiosyncracies. > # Just look at how often the `tzdata` package gets updated ... > > > So in Buster (and thus Beowulf and Chimaera), meaning of "en_US" changed to > > include that silly 12-hour time. > > > > Ways to fix include: > > * C.UTF-8 > > * en_DK.UTF-8 (for some reason, only Denmark is available -- but it's > > identical for all ways that matter) > > I have a habit of selecting "C (No localization)" in the installer and > later installing the locales package. After that a > > dpkg-reconfigure locales > > will "fix" my system. I select `en_GK.UTF-8` and `ja_JP.UTF-8` (and > sometimes `nl_NL.UTF-8` too) to be generated and make `C.UTF-8` the > system default. > > My reasoning being that the system administrator should be fluent in > C.UTF-8 and all my users (that's only me, mostly ;-) smart enough to > configure their sessions to taste. For my own, that's usually > > export LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 > export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 > export LC_COLLATE=C.UTF-8 > > as I prefer an English UI but want sorting to honour non-alphanumerics > and put uppercase before lowercase when I `ls -a` :-P > > BTW, in terms of available `en_*.UTF-8` locales > > $ grep en_ /etc/locale.gen | grep UTF-8 > # en_AG UTF-8 > # en_AU.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_BW.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_CA.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_DK.UTF-8 UTF-8 > en_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_HK.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IE.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IN UTF-8 > # en_NG UTF-8 > # en_NZ.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_PH.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_SG.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_ZA.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_ZM UTF-8 > # en_ZW.UTF-8 UTF-8 > # en_IL UTF-8 > # en_SC.UTF-8 UTF-8 > > so there's a whole pile more than en_DK.UTF-8 but I have no idea (nor am > I inclined to find out) how these format date/time. When I really care > about the formatting I often use > > date +%FT%T > > or > > date +'%F %T' > > for ISO-8601 compliant formatted output. Personally, I find the latter > more readable but it kind of sucks in file names :-) > Of course, `date --iso-8601=seconds` will work too and will even include > timezone info. For UTC, just pass the `--utc` (or `-u`) option. > > Hope this helps, > -- > Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 > GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 > Support Free Software https://my.fsf.org/donate > Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
