Benjamin,

thanks for the review. Comments inline:

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 11:38 PM, Benjamin Kaduk <[email protected]> wrote:
> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dprive-padding-policy-05: No Objection
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At risk of triggering suggestions that there is an echo in the room: This
> document is targetting Experimental status.  Is there a way to know when
> the experiment has ended and/or what the conclusion is?

The reason for this document to be Experimental was that the
recommendation is based on a single empiric study. I would say that if
/ once more empiric studies are undertaken, we can subsequently create
a document with Standards track. Note that such work is eg. proposed
in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/JGuNpoi0IkUPwk6Z08QjXtzTGXA
- so we can expect to hear more from the research community in the
future.

> I know this document does not claim to be exhaustive, but I wonder
> if there was any consideration for a "random multiple fixed block length
> padding", where a fixed block length is used, but the padded message does
> not always use the smallest multiple of the block length that will fit the
> message.  That is, sometimes there is an extra block length or three of
> padding after the "normal" padding to get to the block length.  (This
> strategy is quite closly related to Random Block Length Padding, where the
> candidate block lengths are multiples of the single "fixed" block length,
> but I cannot convince myself that the two are completely identical.)

This was not considered yet. We do have received another suggestion
for a possible padding policy, and my idea was that we could push that
to a future revsion of the policy (once we have more empiric
findings). I have a question pending to the WG for that other policy
to understand what the WG prefers.

> Section 4.1
>
>    The Block Size will interact with the MTU size.  Especially for
>    length values that are a large fraction of the MTU, unless the block
>    length is chosen so that a multiple just fits into the MTU, Block
>    Padding may cause unneccessary fragmentation for UDP based delivery.
>    Also, chosing a block length larger than the MTU of course always
>    forces to always fragment.
>
> This paragraph is (modulo two words) a duplication of a previous paragrpah
> in this section; I think this one (the penultimate paragraph) should be
> removed.

Done, thanks for spotting that. Was an editing mishap.

> Section 7
>
>    No matter how carefully a client selects their Padding policy, this
>    effort can be jeopardized if the server chooses to apply an
>    ineffective Padding policy to the corresponding response packets.
>    Therefore, a client applying Padding may want to choose a DNS server
>    which does apply at least an equally effective Padding policy on
>    responses.
>
> Is there any way for the client to determine the behavior of DNS servers in
> this matter other than trial-and-error?  Perhaps some additional text would
> be helpful.

There is currently no way to signal the server's padding policy.

We have discussed the idea off-list -  However, the result was that
even if a server would communicate which policy it followed, a rogue
server could still apply a "worse" padding scheme. It all boils down
to the trust relationship between client and server, and this is a
problem that can hardly be solved "in-band".

>    [...] Counter-measures
>    against such other side channels could include injecting artificial
>    "cover traffic" into the stream of DNS messages, or delaying DNS
>    responses by a certain amount of jitter.  Such strategies are out of
>    scope of this document.  Additionally, there is neither enough
>    theoretic analysis nor experimental data available to recommend any
>    such countermeasures.
>
> (This seems very closly aligned with Eric's DISCUSS.)  My understanding is
> that in general, random jitter is not actually very helpful in this regard.
> So I'm curious to hear a summary of the WG discussions on this strategy.

This was suggested by Stephen Farrell as part of the WGLC. The
respective discussion about that paragraph is here:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/YYpw8N2V56U-U_vJKwrl1ES28j0

I'm looking at Eric's DISCUSS next, and will look at how to address this.

best,
Alex

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