On May 18, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Suresh Krishnaswamy wrote:

> I'm reading 4641bis after a really long time and the current version appears 
> useful and very well done. So I'd like to applaud the editors and working 
> group for bringing this document into such good shape.
> 
> Leaving aside the nits, here are some of my comments on -11.
> 
> 
> 3.2.1.  Rolling a KSK that is not a trust anchor
>   There are 3 schools of thought on rolling a KSK that is not a trust
>   anchor:
> 
>   o  It should be done frequently and regularly (possibly every few
>      months) so that a key rollover remains an operational routine.
> 
>   o  It should be done frequently but irregularly.  Frequently meaning
>      every few months, again based on the argument that a rollover is a
>      practiced and common operational routine, and irregular meaning
>      with a large jitter, so that 3rd parties do not start to rely on
>      the key and will not be tempted to configure it as a trust anchor.
> 
>   o  It should only be done when it is known or strongly suspected that
>      the key can be or has been compromised, or when a new algorithm or
>      key storage is required.
> 
> 
> SK> I'd add a fourth:
> 
>   o  It should be done in conjunction with operator change policies and
>      procedures so that new operators are adequately prepared to conduct
>      unscheduled key rollover operations should the need arise.

This seems like a good addition. It incorporates the ideas that key rollover 
procedures need to passed forward to new operators.

> -----------------------------
> 
> 3.2.2.  Rolling a KSK that is a trust anchor
> 
> ...
> 
>    It is therefore preferred to roll KSKs that are likely to be used as
>    trust anchors on a regular basis if and only if those rollovers can
>    be tracked using standardized (e.g.  RFC 5011) mechanisms.
> 
> 
> SK> The problem with this the above para is that there is no way to
> verify that the rollovers are being tracked by automated mechanisms.
> Perhaps the guidance ought to be:
> 
>   Thus, if a KSK is intended to be used as a trust anchor it is
>   advantageous to use an aggressive rolling schedule initially, in
>   order to build confidence in the validating client's ability to track
>   these rollovers on an ongoing basis.

+1 to this idea.

> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 3.2.3.  The use of the SEP flag
> 
> ...
> 
>   anchor.  Therefore, it is suggested that the SEP flag is set on keys
>   that are used as KSKs and not on keys that are used as ZSKs, while in
>   those cases where a distinction between KSK and ZSK is not made (i.e.
>   for a Single Type signing scheme), it is suggested that the SEP flag
>   is set on all keys. 
> 
>   Note that signing tools may assume a KSK/ZSK split and use the (non)
>   presence of the SEP flag to determine which key is to be used for
>   signing zone data; these tools may get confused when a single type
>   signing scheme is used.
> 
> 
> SK> Suggest deleting the second para above and adding the following text at 
> the end of the first para instead.
> 
>   Similarly, it is suggested that validators configure Trust Anchors
>   for only those keys that have the SEP flag set.  Signing tools should
>   not merely use the absence of the SEP flag as the sole discriminator
>   while identifying the Zone Signing Keys within a keyset.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 3.3.  Key Effectivity Period
> 
> ...
> 
>    The motivation for having the ZSK's effectivity period shorter than
>    the KSK's effectivity period is rooted in the operational
>    consideration that it is more likely that operators have more
>    frequent read access to the ZSK than to the KSK.  If ZSKs are
>    maintained on cryptographic Hardware Security Modules (HSM), then the
>    motivation to have different key effectivity periods is weakened.
> 
> SK> I don't understand the rationale for the above. The effectivity
> period of the ZSK should have no relation to the number of times it is
> read (and not even on the number of signatures created using it,
> as I think I read on this list). Maybe what we want to say here is that
> 
>   In cases where the ZSK cannot be afforded the same level of
>   protection as the KSK (such as when zone keys are kept online), and
>   where the risk of unauthorized disclosure of the ZSK's private key
>   is not negligible (e.g. when HSMs are not in use), the ZSK's
>   effectivity period should be kept shorter than the KSK's effectivity
>   period.

This circles back to the permathread on why even have a split between the two 
types. If an operator needs to read a key, they need to read a key. If doing so 
is dangerous to the sanctity of the key, the operator has really crappy 
policies. There is no conceptual reason that reading a key is dangerous.

> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 4.1.2.  Key Signing Key Rollovers
> 
> ...
> 
>   Since only the key set is signed with a KSK, zone size considerations
>    do not apply.
> 
> SK> However, the number of signatures in the keyset will increase. That
> is, the response size for the DNSKEY rrset will be slightly larger.

Good point.

> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 4.1.3.  Difference Between ZSK and KSK Rollovers
> 
> ...
> 
>    The drawbacks of this scheme are that, during the "new DS" phase, the
>    parent cannot verify the match between the DS_K_2 RR and DNSKEY_K_2
>    using the DNS -- as DNSKEY_K_2 is not yet published.  Besides, we
>    introduce a "security lame" key (see Section 4.3.3).  Finally, the
>    child-parent interaction consists of two steps.  The "Double
>    Signature" method only needs one interaction.
> 
> 
> SK> Section 4.2.2 talks about the security lameness "condition" and
> security lame "zones". What is a security lame "key"?  Why is the
> introduction of a DS record that has no matching KSK in the child zone
> considered bad (as the above text suggests), given that we have another
> valid DS->KSK link between the parent and child zones?
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 5.3.3.  NSEC3 Salt
> 
> ...
> 
>    However, unlike Zone Signing
>    Key changes, NSEC3 salt changes do not need special rollover
>    procedures.  It is possible to change the salt each time the zone is
>    updated.
> 
> SK> There was a recent suggestion that NSEC3 salt changes also had
> certain timing dependencies because of the need to keep the NSEC3PARAM
> record consistent during this process. Is that a valid concern, and one that
> must be reflected in this document?


Given the lack of discussion, NSEC3 salt should be considered outside this 
document.

--Paul Hoffman

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