> On 13 Oct 2021, at 05:24, Viktor Dukhovni <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Oct 09, 2021 at 07:18:58AM +1100, Mark Andrews wrote:
> 
>> Yes it will be unfiltered but the point of DNSSEC is to filter out bad
>> answers (that is what the ignore bogus responses achieves) and if you
>> are behind a recursive server you need it to do the filtering of the
>> answers it gets as you aren’t in a position to wait for the good
>> answer as they won’t come to you nor are you in the position to ask
>> the authoritatives directly.  It can wait for good answers by just
>> rejecting the spoofed answers and continuing to listen for the real
>> answer. 
> 
> IIRC the forwarder may have a (logically) separate cache with bogus
> answers, which it would normally censor by returning SERVFAIL, but will
> disgorge when the "CD" bit is set.  Or absent such a cache, it may ask
> again, and upon receiving fresh answers that fail validation,
> nevertheless forward these on.

As I have said, stub resolvers need to send *both* CD=0 and CD=1 queries
to handle all the corner cases in DNSSEC.  Disgorging bogus answers doesn’t
usually result in getting an answer that successfully validates.

> Either way, when the stub resolver has trust anchors not known to the
> forwarder, that render the response valid, the "CD" bit could help mask
> the difference.
> 
> For example, though the domain cirroscope.com has no DNSKEYs matching
> its DS RRs:
> 
>    https://dnsviz.net/d/cirroscope.com/YWXRbg/dnssec/
> 
> setting the CD bit will make its DNSKEY RRset visible even via a
> validating forwarder, and if the stub happens to have a trust-anchor
> set for either the algorithm 8 or algorithm 5 KSK, then the stub
> may well be able to validate the zone, the signatures are all valid,
> we just don't have a SEP from .com to cirroscope.com:

But everyone else in the world will be seeing a broken secure delegation.
In practice this is not a sustainable configuration.

>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN DNSKEY 257 3 5 (
>                                    
> AwEAAarIbZcs5FXsMySPAeIo51z7EB7CX61KTRFSqCpo
>                                    
> ciNlU7OJsX2BSz1UeBIqJnuIn+GNAsf1yTE3i5cKujzg
>                                    
> SUWOQF8PKjTQ24nYguWXYaSykzGFK8Bp/6Bm+TGVYMmh
>                                    
> 8Ab8j3hwRZuaBb3JuPQJvEaWnJgdYgxfYoxaOci8hG5U
>                                    
> lYJH8GiFhnQLZISmemIk/S5qizYyPAG+dbnTpZvmGsB+
>                                    
> 0uCrlVMsFcN2YQVCezeOTKmMmjYrW+rzVhv9NFeRHD9+
>                                    
> c6D1a7aZO6qj3H7MkhOQCU44x9c446pCUN8w9Gamlrij
>                                    Xlt7PH8OzgBdBB6d+ZaIVCZpAl16GmZHX/M1t50=
>                                    ) ; KSK; alg = RSASHA1 ; key id = 44602
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 (
>                                    
> AwEAAaLcgz5gnyxbosRvZnyyCFVk5crNSOfOWvbHrVLX
>                                    
> +pMaQYoWhPJzk6Vj2TCOUhZaCZKikQ19lk95o3TMI9xH
>                                    
> CV8AH7KJwC6U2Lg4gcUtbRXN6zc322eJ99xqUElMAO+2
>                                    
> 0TQETz0Qngxla9gK/Oxpp+VsUSl83uWgmOcEqU/jLRON
>                                    
> c4HyfoH5lx7b9QKGYxoZvzYu7IFT1ET6/81nIsK48w38
>                                    
> mnnFjRCyJEqy7Wtq27rwx47BHCVr0LDe61dTB9HUY94v
>                                    
> 5NSpGgN+W2s9cazTjPCupkNg4U9GUHGxDeT2lM0+O9zH
>                                    6oY0WvnXonbZQFp+6mxkVZt3i1TZ2yjVnEDgYus=
>                                    ) ; KSK; alg = RSASHA256 ; key id = 37636
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 (
>                                    
> AwEAAbNDmSwB7ns19bqqXtttgrgexDCuJngapNpV8Akk
>                                    
> M3+YCR9saIvC4RXEteDLV10RlidNnym8Vg2dZWisutc9
>                                    
> 61VNkQXEKdo4eTfJJRP3/ifCyVAyLfZm6/Thh0grLFHj
>                                    
> TjjKQprUk5exWfQtHPLqRCZ/40aE7Ev1Gz8hBgb10oxf
>                                    ) ; ZSK; alg = RSASHA1 ; key id = 33267
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 (
>                                    
> AwEAAeMfFqRTMJB2qiJj+A2Th570cOOe5nT9K2gd/rmA
>                                    
> vbib9jV4P1V5DmdHEZfrgtgoAFCzqWu8kU4uFUZfVXFQ
>                                    
> tel/IVpYWzzH+3rofiQHMwRHEgjv9vWKEMlEdg/SxyDS
>                                    
> WTH6qZIIvfgKEZ32y+jCD11vpZPpuj6ItuRm+EU++OP9
>                                    
> 55ZBUBKbfTJtPtQh67c5aMJOHx6eBuhZYeBhgByQ+RVJ
>                                    
> yJgkhjgghluVYiXqDNv2ZCPNnhVu8KZ8Im+xs1AnLlwb
>                                    
> zHafuuidQJRQrAa53sSNvBb1uliP35qDn6wicHLbtjXY
>                                    roMFCsCVXmsx/Gg1qv5oZLPAgyfIse1slLqATNk=
>                                    ) ; ZSK; alg = RSASHA256 ; key id = 3093
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 5 2 86400 (
>                                    20211108205913 20211009205913 33267 
> cirroscope.com.
>                                    
> N4rtGV5iyM0HRxvK34j2FKtb7WiqQvHMRGuo4OjB07/s
>                                    
> 06BEMix6OCyDwcVpei7kp8rKXZ4DAHqT1DxDdk8d8K3E
>                                    
> v1b3GehN7blLNDf52uUnoXjgIs3MEWmAE/69xmIwUExa
>                                    /CRP7QQVj96Kp7g4iR35xqAbmfjCcQrrk7Vll6U= )
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 5 2 86400 (
>                                    20211108205913 20211009205913 44602 
> cirroscope.com.
>                                    
> Yps3RHKwb3Q1z/dQTkWB9S5M8+dwXgEad9yyiJiGo8pm
>                                    
> fkcgiMnZJ2N5bSNG2Uffp1p4r4oWXcPfrTCOsydu/c2/
>                                    
> qjtMvQAQ8PeA/cgDuRR6cXUOIvAZlaOg1jTXYrb4OCeS
>                                    
> Z8XqkTLrd6ODBtYkurV4L69YiO78wVnFwpbL9HCOFHTz
>                                    
> L3Td9SdTYs+cNosCQvGQkMdXIS9Fl6CLCwshzFv+soON
>                                    
> mZXimNSAiZ97u8lze4tT5nbS8A4fGLpdvdmUqxnGHIez
>                                    
> 0oK6pfof4ktvqVr0Jwa2PahATjfcsX1lFCnnMRQtLN/A
>                                    CaF6x3CjQ8umWPvfvrFfIV6t8rXEv5wZkw== )
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 8 2 86400 (
>                                    20211108205913 20211009205913 3093 
> cirroscope.com.
>                                    
> EMTLRz8Nvn4o1e8P86z/tkCBqz3LECqU5jZyuJrd1Zlq
>                                    
> 77KTBmRgmEsbuc3Nerh/BHR3/e+U9zKSQz+HZsh2lGmb
>                                    
> ORn9etG55HTtkTBG7TQ2QPhn85KNc05M6aNevaH5H+4x
>                                    
> QquXE4ofI7kcXcO09mKHhLvvjlB2sbEQDnnp3ALRPqq4
>                                    
> QnagvOpu8JkoXv/q4eGEFvSQm8nzV6P04TPmr36Avpwt
>                                    
> Sz0aaVp9U3sRqwjbg6QoY6VYBWeDwUcYPG6lwCFixgUY
>                                    
> doV3EWOvSStuRno+kZgdJ10T7FTH5Bs1mG//FMg40Z9K
>                                    nta8f6xd6qr7H4ec41I85eyc3oRIXl6PGA== )
>    cirroscope.com.         20468 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 8 2 86400 (
>                                    20211108205913 20211009205913 37636 
> cirroscope.com.
>                                    
> Zk1+9iWged2qsx1dkCp4goZ0Jt1wmr1vRQCQVmM8H5Fq
>                                    
> cxhVoDcYUcRFk6YWr/KOKInqmKQVC+JcOXX6k46lNDZP
>                                    
> 1uu87j9Yhg9Z7w2d25asbOXhG9vELyGUYdFobEb6mpnt
>                                    
> sJF7CoJ84b6ijwRFaNf3BbrpbnPEOLWF2QepjhRieKGi
>                                    
> NggMaoSTLTfmmedHV/kD1BcWNZi5MGFNkiHvkXyrbSV1
>                                    
> d4qZYlFRYCWyBwtV6dLMwe7qg8zGtmFTg+Q9nN23uC90
>                                    
> x6j9ViJHbTsnTQwnq7P0XRPAK95LR6Y9uEADA4jZlGNG
>                                    TJ/0GvCPOwpH/iZzc4TP3Xjl9BuH+iWRWA== )
> 
> -- 
>    Viktor.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> DNSOP mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: [email protected]

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