Sorry, I don't follow.

The whole point of the conditional behavior based on the EDNS signal, is to
allow RCODE replacement without causing SERVFAIL. Perhaps I have not
clearly described the details, and I also should write it up more
precisely. I'll also wait for your write-up.

Shumon.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:49 AM John Levine <[email protected]> wrote:

> Now it sounds like NXDOMAIN turns into SERVFAIL. When I have a decent
> keyboard I'll suggest a way this might not break unmodified downstream
> clients.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Shumon Huque <[email protected]>
> Date: 3/15/23 09:18 (GMT-05:00)
> To: John Levine <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Updated: Compact Denial of Existence
>
> Only for Compact Answers, otherwise downstream validators may treat the
> response as unvalidatable because the rcode doesn't match the DNSSEC proof.
> So, I actually see this is unbreaking things.
>
> I think it's worth taking a step back though and asking a larger question:
> if we are restoring the NXDOMAIN signal with the NXNAME pseudo type in the
> NSEC record of NODATA responses, why do we also need to restore NXDOMAIN
> into the RCODE field?
>
> The answer to that I think is that a number of folks have argued to me
> that there are tons of security, analytics, and traffic characterization
> tools in existence today that look at the RCODE field for this purpose, and
> they are presently already broken because of this. We could ask them to
> modify their implementations to infer NXDOMAIN from the NXNAME pseudo-type,
> but who knows how long that will take (if ever).
>
> Shumon.
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 10:04 AM John Levine <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Wait, so if my cache does this and I change nothing, it silently turns
>> NXDOMAIN into NOERROR? That is badly broken.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Shumon Huque <[email protected]>
>> Date: 3/15/23 07:48 (GMT-05:00)
>> To: Ralf Weber <[email protected]>
>> Cc: John R Levine <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Updated: Compact Denial of Existence
>>
>>>
>>>
>> Precisely,  but it can still work if the signal is used in a hop by hop
>> fashion.
>>
>> So, if a resolver sends EDNS CompactAnswersOK signal to an authority
>> server, which returns a NODATA+NXNAME proof + RCODE=3 response, then the
>> resolver would have to intelligently manage that answer in its cache. To
>> downstream DO=1 queriers that also set CompactAnswersOK, it could return
>> that answer as is. To those that don't, it would have to reset the RCODE to
>> NOERROR. This imposes more complexity on the resolver implementation of
>> course, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work - and it would be
>> optional anyway. Clients that want to see the NXDOMAIN signal in the RCODE
>> might push their resolver service to implement it.
>>
>> Shumon.
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
DNSOP mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop

Reply via email to