On Wed, Feb 05, 2025 at 9:39 AM, Duane Wessels <
[email protected]> wrote:

> On Feb 4, 2025, at 4:49 PM, Kim Davies <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> We have published a new version of the draft intended to document the
> .internal top-level domain. (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/
> draft-davies-internal-tld/
> <https://secure-web.cisco.com/1wL3tfrwQ6JxaBo9-XvwsA_Nahe2UUmEH7JTf_uvCUh7hyS4bNVwO7ystIkidXlX0prAvh8mAVxwkG-QKsT3VEp5TV_0FZjt_6Ppb4bOTQgbFIwlU3PaJFykiPKGLVvRnoyAQLTbWZceZwwdYn4Fw8EKgBHGuml6JX-eWDcSm9TM8rdRYE-GF5Zw7-kA2gBgyvnXE2VrefyPx8jJSsoMgPB2L2oNqbUbLLs2doGF-lwiLRHnaqhz-KV6bf2l5GGYM2gXJUCr5Q5d4W5as6p0iQqjVPI6zFjkX2JEozzlCSUmMf680a54LbHQdEJtf5wuABalAXsaBF2XAmke5zin3Dg/https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-davies-internal-tld%2F>
> )
>
> When we presented this work in Dublin, there was a lot of discussion both
> in the meeting, and subsequently, on whether this should be a work item and
> also whether the domain merited consideration as a special-use domain name
> per RFC 6761. I don’t think there was clear consensus on either, but to
> further the discussion on the latter point, Warren Kumari has provided
> strawman text to stimulate discussion.
>
> kim
>
>
> I think .internal definitely should be a special use domain name, just
> like .invalid, .test, and others.
>


Thank you.

I suspect that not everyone has read the draft, so I'll note that the text
in the draft (
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-davies-internal-tld-02.html#name-domain-name-reservation-con)
was largely taken from other RFC6761 / SUDN registrations.

1: The answer to question 1 was copied from [RFC6762], and an additional
sentence was added to make it more explicit. I do think that is is somewhat
of a fiction that users will *actually* understand this, but, well, this
seems to be our convention, so…

"Users SHOULD understand that .internal names are not expected to be
globally unique, and may resolve to different addresses and services on
different networks. Since there is no central authority responsible for
assigning .internal names, users SHOULD be aware of this and SHOULD
exercise appropriate caution.  In an untrusted or unfamiliar network
environment, users SHOULD be aware that using a name like "www.internal"
may not actually connect them to the web site they expected, and could
easily connect them to a different web page, or even a fake or spoof of
their intended web site, designed to trick them into revealing confidential
information.  As always with networking, end-to-end cryptographic security
can be a useful tool. For example, when connecting with ssh, the ssh host
key verification process will inform the user if it detects that the
identity of the entity they are communicating with has changed since the
last time they connected to that name."

2: The answer to question 2 was copied from [RFC6761], Sec 6.5. "Domain
Name Reservation Considerations for Example Domains". A second sentence was
added about potential special handling for cookies. This is, of course,
trivial to remove.

"Application software, in general, SHOULD NOT recognize .internal names as
special and SHOULD use .internal names as they would other domain names. An
exception to this may be web browsers (and similar) which may wish to
institute special handling for cookies, such as invalidation when a network
change is detected."

3: The answer to question 3  was copied from [RFC6761], Sec 6.5. "Domain
Name Reservation Considerations for Example Domains".
"Name resolution APIs and libraries SHOULD NOT recognize .internal names as
special and SHOULD NOT treat them differently.  Name resolution APIs SHOULD
send queries for .internal names to their configured caching DNS server(s)."

4: The answer to question 4  was copied from [RFC6761], Sec 6.5. "Domain
Name Reservation Considerations for Example Domains".
"Caching DNS servers SHOULD NOT recognize .internal names as special and
SHOULD resolve them normally."

5: The answer to question 5 was copied from [RFC6761], Sec 6.1 "Domain Name
Reservation Considerations for Private Addresses".

"Authoritative DNS servers SHOULD recognize these names as special and
SHOULD, by default, generate immediate negative responses for all such
queries, unless explicitly configured by the administrator to give positive
answers for names within the .internal zone."

6: The answer to question 6 was copied from [RFC6761], Sec 6.1 "Domain Name
Reservation Considerations for Private Addresses".

"DNS server operators SHOULD, if they are using .internal names, configure
their authoritative DNS servers to act as authoritative for these names."

7: The answer to question 7 was copied from [RFC6762]:
"DNS Registries/Registrars MUST NOT grant requests to register any of these
names in the normal way to any person or entity. These names are reserved
for use in private networks, and fall outside the set of names available
for allocation by registries/ registrars. Attempting to allocate one of
these names as if it were a normal DNS domain name will probably not work
as desired, for reasons 4, 5 and 6 above."



 The text for RFC 6761 consideration 4 should be similar to those others,
> e.g.:
>
>    4.  Caching DNS servers SHOULD, by default, recognize .internal
>        names as special and SHOULD NOT, by default, attempt to look
>        up NS records for them, or otherwise query authoritative DNS
>        servers in an attempt to resolve .internal names.  Instead,
>        caching DNS servers SHOULD, by default, generate immediate
>        negative responses for all such queries.  This is to avoid
>        unnecessary load on the root name servers and other name
>        servers.
>
> I’d really like to see MUST instead of SHOULD but I suspect most will think 
> thats a step too far.
>
>
Oh, wow, yes, that's the answer I should have chosen for question 4. In my
mind, an Enterprise might use e.g accounting.internal. I didn't want them
to have to reconfigure all of their branch "caching DNS servers"
(resolvers) when setting this up, and they would just configure the special
handing on the "authoritative servers"... but clearly my brain was on
autopilot.

Would you be OK with my using the text from RFC6761 instead of your
(edited) version?
e.g:
Answer 4 from RFC6761 Section 6.2.  Domain Name Reservation Considerations
for "test.":
*4.  Caching DNS servers SHOULD recognize .internal names as special and*
*       SHOULD NOT, by default, attempt to look up NS records for them,*
*       or otherwise query authoritative DNS servers in an attempt to*
*       resolve test names.  Instead, caching DNS servers SHOULD, by*
*       default, generate immediate negative responses for all such*
*       queries.  This is to avoid unnecessary load on the root name*
*       servers and other name servers.  Caching DNS servers SHOULD offer*
*       a configuration option (disabled by default) to enable upstream*
*       resolving of .internal names, for use in networks where .internal
names are*
*       known to be handled by an authoritative DNS server in said*
*       private network.*

I believe that the answer for #5 (authoritative) would remain the same…

W

DW
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