Hello, I started to follow up to Stas' last post (an old/new navigation widget idea), but this is a bit more broad, I guess.
I originally liked the idea of the prev/next/up links that showed the title, but now it seems too cluttered. (I'm on my whitespace mission again ;) Actually, I don't mind the look of: http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_d/download/bundles.html but I do think the link wording just dominates the page -- might not be so dominating if there was more content, but it just doesn't seem that critical to display the titles. Do people really need to know the title of the next or previous page? Not really, you just need a way to continue reading. I think << and >> or [prev|up|next] work great, and doesn't clutter the page. I also think that there might be just plain too much navigation. Can a page end up with the side menu, a center menu, a bread crumb, and maybe [prev|next]? Ignoring that it's javascript, I think most people agree that navigation with those javascript expanding menus is quite nice. In a small and consistent amount of space you can quickly see the layout of the site and get to any page. In general, they work great for both the experienced user that's trying to find a specific page, and someone trying to understand the overall layout. Unlike bread-crumbing, you don't know where you *are*, but unless you came in from a search engine, you probably don't need bread-crumbing to know where you are. Most browsers have a Back button, and the side menu should give you some idea of where you are. Back to another type of secondary navigation in the current design: Like I've said before, I think the two Table Of Contents in the current design is confusing. Perhaps it's just the formatting of the TOC in the content area of the site -- that is, maybe it's the bulleted list that I find in conflict with the menu bar on the left side. It also forces people to use two different "systems" for navigation, adding to the confusion. Look at: http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style5/index.html Which menu should I use? Of course, at some level you will need a separate TOC on the page, but for something like: http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style5/docs/index.html it's a bit odd because it's using two different menu systems. Again, at some level that can't be avoided, but below I comment on a way to make it more integrated ("organic" as my designer friends say). Now, I understand that Javascript is not considered an option. But what about a (static) expanding sidebar menu with an arrow or some indication showing the current page? Have you discussed that yet, by chance? For example, you go to Documentation and the menu expands to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Documentation Beginners Tutorial User's Guide Developer's Guide API documentation Products Where in the to the right of menu (the middle content part of the pate) there's a paragraph for each of those items describing what it is, with a more>> link. Go to the Developer's Guide and it changes to: Documentation [Developer's Guide] >>Porting Modules Developing Tests mod_perl 2.0 Source Code Style Guide Or some such thing. Now you don't really need [prev|next|up] since you can see where you are unless the content (say, at third-level) is broken into more than one page), and you can quickly jump around at your level without having to use [up] first. Clearly, that wouldn't work for something like the Guide where there's so many entries in the TOC, but for basic first and second-level navigation it might be fine and reduce the need for all the secondary navigation methods on a page. I did this not too long ago on a static site built by ttree (with a little dynamic content). I needed a way for quite non-technical people to be able to add to the site, and have the menu automatically adjusted by extracting the TOC from the page itself. I used a small TT plugin/filter and a config file to define the top-level menu items. And then all the pages just say in meta data where they belong (what top-level they fit under), define short and long titles for the page, and it all gets generated automatically. The trick is to make the menu expand in a way that's not too ugly. BTW, has everyone looked at the site listed on Jonathan's sig? http://wypug.pm.org/ I think it has a very nice design (as do my designer friends). Note how the menu in the upper left is the first thing you look at, and how the content in the middle has white space above it which helps the eye flow? There's not the competition between the menu and the list of items in the middle area. On the mod_perl site, I don't think there's the need for a big HOME or ABOUT bar across the top of the page. After all, you just clicked on one of the menu items which is now highlighted, and the links below are related to the topic, so you should know where you are. Note also that those items in the middle of the wypug page are really another table of contents -- just a list of links, really -- but it doesn't look like a TOC and doesn't conflict with the menu bar. Also the liberal use of whitespace between the links make it really comfortable to use. One might argue that all that whitespace requires scrolling, but I just don't think that hitting the space bar or a click of the mouse is that bad, especially when it's a lot easier on the eyes to read. Not to mention I'd rather scroll down than to have to follow yet another link one more depth down. Also, contrast that wypug page with the mailing list page: http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style5/maillist/index.html Again, it might be nice to follow the format of the wypug page and instead of just a bullet list of links, display the link *and* the description so people can compare the collection of mailing lists in one place, and then a [more>>] link to get the details. Since "mod_perl" is a rather large subject, I think that a lot of first (or is it 2nd?) level pages could use this format to replace the table of contents in the body of the page. Regardless, the [Table Of Contents] bar is probably is not really needed -- I think people can figure out that it's a table of links. Anyway, take a look at that site. It seems to present the content it needs to present, but in a nice, clean way. Maybe some of those ideas can be used on the mod_perl site. I hope I don't sound antagonistic, especially considering all the great and hard work put into the site so far. It's really great -- thanks very much! It's a lot easier for me to comment when I'm not that involved, of course. And it also allows me to take an abstract look at things without worrying about the details. -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
