For what it's worth, here's another novice user perspective. It seems to largely agree with what we discussed last time around.
What we need is some way to put ideas like this into concrete changes in the docs. Joshua. -----Original Message----- From: justken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 31, 2001 3:32 AM To: users@httpd.apache.org Subject: help getting help - Re-> the best way. my 2 cents. actaully - it's about 5 bucks worth here, but hey! if you don't have time to read, skip the explanations... i'm a novice user of apache and have managed to figure it out, at least how to get it to do most of what i need it for, primarily from the docs it ships with. although hours spent studying the very well commented .conf file have been most helpful - and of course good old trial and error in the end. often i don't even know, what i don't know. althogh this is my first post to any list about apache, i've been frustrated by the level of knowledge assumed by the documentation. i feel that i've learned a whole new language. the last time i set up a server system that was as challenging was on my apple iie for a multi line chat system, programmed entirely in call 151 assembly for my blazing fast 1200 baud hayes modem. what i would like to have before i started: 1) it would be helpful to have an archive of this apache list. before i started setting up apache, i was using (don't laugh) PWS on WinME, there was no reason for me to subscribe to this list. it wasn't until recently when i started having problems with apache, and after repeatedly reaching a dead end, that i subscribed. now i am somewhat web aware, and didn't just pop on the list and post my questions. however the temptation is GREAT! i want instant solutions to impossible problems, and don't even speak the apache language (in fact, i don't even speak unix, which may be appalling to many of you.) and have no idea the history of the list. I'm sure that within the past year, many many newbies have met the same problems i have, so, like myself, subscribed to the list, seen not too much about installing stuff, and suddenly gone question crazy. asking questions just answered days or weeks ago. 2) a glossary of terms that also covers some of the more obscure "unix" terms. usually reserved for servers, and serving related stuff. like "virtual hosting", "NT service", "httpd" - has anyone looked at the man page for that term??? it's entirely in greek!! 3) break the faq up into OS specific stuff. often i have used the browser search to look for stuff, only to find it's qualified as an OS specific problem. yeah yeah, i know how much work that is, but it's possible, and really - we wouldn't want win2k diehards and unix diehards in the same room, do we really want them bopping each other on the head in these forums? some things that would be great now that i'm at first base: 1) i'd love to see "optimization" information, or "the best way to..." stuff. i have some stuff that works - but i really have no idea why. I have some stuff that worked, then didn't work, now works again. and i still haven't figured out what i did to change any of it. i have some stuff that doesn't work at all, but i've got a work around or "second best solution" where i'm sure there must be a better way but just don't have the patience to continue trying to figure it out, when there are more important things to consider like the web content that is supposed to be served.. 2) i'd love to see a "deprecated" list - or more clearly labeled stuff in the conf file, i spent HOURS and HOURS trying to get coldfusion working after moving my server to a new hard drive, only to find out that the mod's list had changed formats and the loadmodule for coldfusion came before a command to remove all modules in favour of a new way of adding modules - i still don't understand what that is all about, but it's working now and if it ain't broke... don't fix. I found the answer scouring the dregs of usenet posts and stumbled upon a similar problem, and made the discovery that hey - there is this new command, and the old stuff is all deprecated. 3) examples of working servers! i've seen plenty of requests before, in other groups, _post_some_examples!!!_ yeah, those... hey, i could post "bad examples that work", i have managed to get multiple virtual hosts happening, but i still can't figure out how to give them there own unique cgi bin, i can't get pdf files to be served from a folder in the cgi-bin path, and i can't get my default ip or www to serve without duplicating it in the virtual host directory with this installation (it worked before). i lost my root log files, till i forced them into a subfolder in my cgi-bin. i'm serving a lot of perl using "activestate perl" and have heard a lot of talk about mod perl, and am terrified to open that can of worms, lest a fish i'm not prepared for, completely overwhelms me, and i end up serving from my apple iie again. final observations (wow, you got this far - cool, thanks) I found the move from single ip hosting, where i pointed my name to my server was very simple, but making the switch to Virtual hosting, was totally confusing. i still don't think i've got things right, but they work, and i'm ok with that. i use apache as a development server, not a production server, so it's not critical that performance be optimized, BUT - the perfectionist in my would like to see it go that way. what i need as a novice user, and one not willing to spend $75 (canadian) taking my chances with a book on configuring Apache, is a set of guidelines in plain english, or linked to a clear glossary of terms, context and keyword search of faq and doc's, and get the clear information onto the index page of the apache.org site, we shouldn't have to go hunting for it. (or from the online doc's included in the install). Something that is more OS specific than the general docs. and a decent archive of the questions that we newbies ask - faq's tend to be too technical, and often i don't know where to look - until there is a "my server failed to start, i've tried everything and i'm tired a frustrated, and i'm dieing here... what do i do?" question in the faq, with the correct answer... hope this helps you guys help us get the help we need. thanks. ken easson justken.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] justken web programming and technical support. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project. See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info. 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