I was not aware that LinkedIn had a discussion group for LO users.
I would love to know what they feel is worse about the LO macro recorder
over that in OOo version 1.3 (or what ever the last version was).
Certainly the code created by the Macro recorder is poor. It is
sufficiently poor that one of the original developers opined that it
should be removed. The OOo macro recorder seems to primarily record
dispatches, which although useful for quick and dirty things, is at
least marginally useful. The same developer that opined that perhaps the
existing recorder should be removed threw out estimates and comments on
how to fix it; I think that the original estimate was about $100K worth
of developer time.
My personal opinion is that someone probably said "hey, we could scrap
together a macro recorder with very little effort by intercepting
dispatches", and thus the recorder was born... as opposed to a
deliberate process of designing in a "good" macro recorder.
The few times that I have looked at the Basic object model used to
interact with MSO, it seemed to clearly be easier for many things than
using the OOo model. For example, the process for dealing with selected
stuff. On the other hand, OOo mostly exposes the actual internals, so
once you learn it for one language, you have it for almost all of them
(with a few minor differences). I have no idea if the object model
available in VB for MSO is also available for other languages (because I
never cared enough to try it).
I have written in VBA, and it was a horrid experience, primarily because
the language has so many bugs that were long ago fixed in StarBasic;
array methods are a prime example. I never bother to use most of the
standard VBA array methods directly because the fringe cases cause VBA
to fail. I wrap them all in safe methods complete with error handling to
prevent macro failure. This foolishness was fixed in OOo many years ago.
Then again, near as I can figure the MS C++ IO libraries contain the
same bugs today that they contained 10 years ago, so I am not holding my
breath for them to fix any of them.
The moment you can step away from straight VB and use .NET, however,
life becomes much better and you can ignore many of the buggy language
features and use .NET classes instead. I know that this has nothing to
do with manipulating the internals directly, but it does put a nicer
frame around the access.
In my opinion, the OOo object model was meant for good programmers
comfortable in C++. This object model was then made available in
StarBasic with many of the difficulties hidden away by the Basic Bridge
(or glue, or what ever it is called), but, it is still difficult for an
inexperienced programmer to wrap their mind around it. Well, when just
starting, it is probably difficult for an experienced programmer to wrap
their mind around it because it helps a lot to understand how the
internals fit together.
Having translated a few VB macros to OOo, I can say that some things are
much easier and some are much more difficult. If all you know is MS
stuff, then it will all feel more difficult.
As for the "Hell" that the new LO users are feeling, Yeah, I get it. I
frequently feel that way when I try to do certain advanced things in
MSO. Spent a couple of hours one day with an experienced MSO user trying
to format tables in a specific way. At the end of the day, I made the
changes in OOo and then wrote a DOC file and we were done. I will
readily admit that just because I could not figure it out, or any of the
MSO users that I asked, it does not mean that it is more difficult in
MSO. Back in the very early 90s, I suffered from the delusion that MAC
was an easier OS to use (because I bought into their marketing). I then
took a college computer instructor with years of experience in Windows,
Solaris, and others... This professor was unable to figure out how to do
certain "simple" tasks on a MAC. My point is that one must be careful to
not mistake familiarity with ease of use. Based on this I can't say if
the newer version of MSO are easier to use or not. I just know that they
totally changed the interface and things that used to be stupid simple
for me leave me spending extended time surfing the net for solutions and
asking longtime MSO users. Sadly, most users don't use complex features
and they have no idea how to do them either.
I do not have the experience with programming MSO to say that it is, or
is not easier. But my guess, based on not much, is that it is ---- just
as I used to think that the MAC was easier to use than say Windows. For
me, it is clearly easier to use OOo / AOO / LO, because I know it and it
works on all of my operating systems. Just figuring out how to add a
button in a blank form in Access to call a macro left me thinking of all
the painful things I might like to do to the people that made it so
difficult.
I think that I am rambling off topic....
On 07/28/2012 05:40 PM, Jean Weber wrote:
Andrew, any comment or suggestions? --Jean
Begin forwarded message:
From: Kostas Mousafiris <[email protected]>
Date: 28 July 2012 11:11:06 PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Libo discussion group on LinkedIn
Reply-To: [email protected]
Hi everyone!
I intercepted the following winging about some LibreOffice feature., in
a LinkedIn discussion group
I am not sure if this is the appropriate list
and I also think that it may well be a known issue,
but I would like to report it all the same, in the hope that something
can be done:
LO macro recorder.
In LibreOffice, the macro recorder is even worse than in OpenOffice.
Compared with Ms Office, OO's one it is a little hell for "simple
users", but LO's is just impossible.
As a trainer, I had to face my disappointed trainee's after their
company has changed from OO to LO.
Does anyone has an experience or comment about that?
22 days ago
✔ Jan V.
<http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMemberFeed=&gid=3718834&memberID=126096217&goback=%2Egde_3718834_member_131211305>
likes this
1 comment
✔ Jan V.
<http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=126096217&goback=%2Egde_3718834_member_131211305>
✔ Jan
✔ Jan V.
<http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMemberFeed=&gid=3718834&memberID=126096217>
• I do fully agree - I've been using OO since version 1.0. And have
former been developing in MSO 95,97 and 2000. The Experience of the
API in MSO was a mixture of frustration over incompatibility between
versions and a clear picture of the object model. I think that the
OOo/LO API lacks clarity and the Macro is even worse. "ooo macro
programming by andrew pitonyak" gives, I think, the best
dokumentation. :o)
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
