Hi Peter, > > https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/huawei-and-the-cameron-connection/ > > I began to wonder who were the other players in the UK 5G competition.
It was a discussion topic on BBC 1's _This Week_ on Thursday, with Tim Marshall, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Marshall_(journalist), interviewed by Andrew Neil. Here's the interesting bits from the subtitles. TM: China seeks to dominate us, to dominate everyone. Of course, it's not the first time a country has tried to do this. The United States and Russia carved up the globe during the Cold War, the British Empire. They're flexing their muscles in a manner well suited to the modern globalised world, economic control. But Beijing competes for domination with Washington, and that asks a question of others - whose side are you on? TM: In the last five years, we have seen China's Belt and Road Initiative develop, a $1 trillion package, developing construction projects in more than 60 countries. So, good for those countries? Not entirely. China is accused of debt-trap diplomacy, extending excessive credit to countries such as Sri Lanka - in that case, for a port - only to see the countries default - at which point, China says, nice port, we'll take it for a naval base, thank you. TM: China is also determined to dominate the Fourth Industrial Revolution, technology and AI, but so is the United States and this is at the heart of Trump's trade war with China, which in turn could lead to a global trade war. As the Huawei row shows, we are likely to have to choose between the superpowers. TM: If we use Chinese technology in our 5G networks, the Americans may not share intelligence. Sure, in general, we can trade with both powers, but there's no pick and mix on security and infrastructure. Also, if the Americans call in a trade favour, do we say, sorry, we prefer "Made in China"? That's the backdrop to the Gavin Williamson sacking. Whoever leaked wanted the decision favouring China reversed. TM: So, who do we ally with - our flawed ally or a dictatorship with an appalling human rights record? It's not as simple as, well, whichever gives us the best deal. AN: Given China's record, when it comes to industrial espionage, cybercrime, theft of intellectual property on a grand scale, would any British government be right to ignore US warnings about Huawei? TM: On a personal note, I'd say absolutely not, and even if the science is ambiguous, why would you take that risk..? Can you imagine in the 1970s in a similar situation that the British government would have said to the Russians, Oh, do come into our critical infrastructure and help us build it. It is inconceivable. AN: It's not just America. Australia and New Zealand have also expressed serious concerns, and they say they will not deal with Huawei on 5G. That's three out of the famous intelligence gatherers, in which we are crucial partners. That cannot be ignored. AN: This isn't just Huawei that's involved. The US Trade Representative, and this was a previous administration, Mr Obama's, they calculate that $300 billion of technology and intellectual property rights is stolen every year by China. The foreign companies that set up in China are forced to hand over their technology and IP as the price of doing business, and China's 2017 national intelligence law encourages, indeed, some read it, depending on the translation, mandates Chinese expats to become industrial spies. Surely the scandal of this goes way beyond Huawei! The scandal is that the West has done almost nothing since China entered the WTO in 2000 to counter this. TM: I agree with all of that... This isn't about trade, it's about foreign policy, and the things you said are true. I've looked, obviously in translation, at the laws in China, but also Huawei and all the other big companies, by law, must allow China to look straight into their computers at any point that they want. Whereas, of course, the Americans can't even get into Facebook. TM: So why are we putting that at risk? The idea that they wouldn't build [in backdoors is like assuming Russia wouldn't bug the Moscow building given to the USA for an embassy]. ...but you're right, Huawei is now the buzzword for a much bigger issue about where you put your weight. We have to trade with both countries... and clearly you do that with the Americans. Don't even have to like them, but you put your weight there. TM: Why do you think [China] invest so heavily in Hollywood? Have you seen a film, in the last five years, that has had an evil threatening China or Chinese person in it? No. Because if you are 30% into a Hollywood film company... AN: That is why Sony bought into Hollywood because it was making movies about the evil Japanese until Sony moved in... AN: One thing that does not get any coverage here, if we look at President Xi's Made in China 2025, which is a road map for his totalitarian organisation, what it says is that China must become dominant in all the technologies that will matter, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, jet engines, nuclear power, by whatever means possible and we will dominate these technologies behind a mercantilist wall and until Mr Trump came along, the Americans in particular just accepted that was the way of the world. AN: The British should not just see this as some kind of whim of Trump, of course his language is often outrageous and he makes it tougher than it needs be. I have just come back from the US and the Democratic Congress is even more militant about this than the White House. Getting tough on China on business is now the new DC consensus. Britain better understand what is going on here, this does not go if Trump does not win the White House. TM: I will give you an example, if you look at the new Nafta agreement between the US, Canada and Mexico, built into it, it has not been ratified yet, but built into it is that you do not do favourable trade deals on security matters with China. They have built it into that and Canada and Mexico have signed up to it. TM: I think people let their visceral dislike of Trump get in the way of clarity of understanding a much bigger issue... I will leave you with this thought, the Chinese are busy locking up 1 million Muslim Uighurs in re-education camps. 1 million people and most people are relatively silent, the Arab world, the Muslim world is relatively silent about this because they are also worried about trade deals. Are we really going to put our weight on our future policy towards that. TM: America is flawed and has all sorts of human rights issues, but you are forced to choose when there are two superpowers. -- Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: BEC, Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2019-06-04 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:[email protected]
